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War Protesters ...where are they now ?	tomder55	08/12/08
So where are those hundreds of thousands of anti-war protesters ? Shouldn't they be on the streets protesting in Europe ;and the United States over the illegal war of aggression being conducted by Russia against Georgia ? Where are the burning Russian flags and paper mache Putins hanging in effigee ? The Great Victor Davis Hanson has a brilliant observation : The Russians have sized up the moral bankruptcy of the Western Left. They know that half-a-million Europeans would turn out to damn their patron the United States for removing a dictator and fostering democracy, but not more than a half-dozen would do the same to criticize their long-time enemy from bombing a constitutional state. The Russians rightly expect Westerners to turn on themselves, rather than Moscow — and they won’t be disappointed. Imagine the morally equivalent fodder for liberal lament: We were unilateral in Iraq, so we can’t say Russia can’t do the same to Georgia. (As if removing a genocidal dictator is the same as attacking a democracy). We accepted Kosovo’s independence, so why not Ossetia’s? (As if the recent history of Serbia is analogous to Georgia’s.) We are still captive to neo-con fantasies about democracy, and so encouraged Georgia’s efforts that provoked the otherwise reasonable Russians (As if the problem in Ossetia is our principled support for democracy rather than appeasement of Russian dictatorship). From what the Russians learned of the Western reaction to Iraq, they expect their best apologists will be American politicians, pundits, professors, and essayists — and once more they will not be disappointed. We are a culture, after all, that after damning Iraqi democracy as too violent, broke, and disorganized, is now damning Iraqi democracy as too conniving, rich, and self-interested — the only common denominator being whatever we do, and whomever we help, cannot be good.
Clarification/Follow-up by Mary_Susan on 08/12/08 11:46 am: More Lunatic Fringe chunky vomitus!! A war only a couple of days old...no time yet to sort things out and print up signs and line up a movement!!! Clarification/Follow-up by paraclete on 08/12/08 8:48 pm: It is useful here to observe that Europe (EU) have played a pivotable role and they didn't need the US this time around. Let us hope GWB doesn't do any more grandstanding and goes back to snoozing in the sun Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 08/13/08 4:58 am: I think Bush's address where he used the word "must "several times in describing what he expected from the Russians....(which you know has meaning in diplomatic lingo);had alot of weight in their decision to announce a cease fire. Russia's got the EU by the gonads. They have twice cut off their gas supply to demonstrate their control over the EU. Clarification/Follow-up by paraclete on 08/13/08 10:13 pm: face it Tom, Russia's not impressed by Bush's bluster, they have been at this for centuries Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 08/14/08 6:07 am: maybe so . But I think the Ruskies just walked into their own hornets nest. I see no reason why we should not support the Georgian military effort . This very well could be their "Iraq". Note that the Georgian Army fell back instead of drawing a line and standing to fight. The Ruskies are walking into territory where the population has a vivid memory of the last time the Ruskies occupied them. The Georgian Army looks to me to be falling back intact to a defensive position in the Lesser Caucasus Mts. If the Ruskies bog down and do not withdraw as the world demands then expect an Iraqi style insurgency . Notable is the fact that there are many US advisors on the ground with presumably plenty of experience in that type of combat . IEDs anyone ? Night raids on isolated Ruskie units ? They will rue the day they crossed through Roki Tunnel .If push comes to shove a strategically placed bomb could cut off the Ruskie land route supplyline . Then a couple of strategically placed mines in the Black Sea could really give them problems. Expect the US to transfer SAM and anti-tank capability to the Georgians. Clarification/Follow-up by paraclete on 08/14/08 9:11 am: Tom I think it would be very foolish for the US to escalate this in any way. There are a lot of local issues here and it should be remembered that there are people there who don't want Georgian rule. It might be interesting to ask why? The Russians have already had their Iraq, it was Afghanistan, a lesson the US should take on board. The Georgians are being prudent they know they could not win an all out conflict. Better to make the Russians look bad. This is not Iraq or Afghanistan, there are no US advisers with the necessary experience in fighting a guerrella war in this place, to think so is just bravado. Think of Georgia like Switzerland, every valley is isolated and perhaps even of different ethnic loyalties, The only reason anyone is interested is oil and gas. You should remember how Russia dealt with Chechyna which after all is only on the other side of the mountains Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 08/14/08 10:10 am: there are no US advisers with the necessary experience in fighting a guerrella war in this place, to think so is just bravado. Sorry ; you are not correct .The US has a military presence there . The Ruskies bombed the Airfield they are stationed at. Included in this contingent are US Marines and Spec Forces who have had extensive counter-insurgency experience in the last 7 years. Think of Georgia like Switzerland....there are people there who don't want Georgian rule. It might be interesting to ask why? Switzerland is an intersting comparison ;but I see this more like Sudetenland 1938 . The pretext for the German conquest was the "ethnic Germans " living there. To extend this comparison look at Ukraine as Poland . Russia has a pretext for invasion there since the line of sh*t is that Eastern Ukrainians would prefer to live under Ivan's rule. No the Ruskie agression has to be countered . They provide Iran with the equipment they need to be a regional menace. We should provide free Georgia with the means to defend themselves.

Summary of Answers Received	Answered On	Answered By	Average Rating
1. More Lunatic Fringe chunky vomitus!! A war only a couple o...	08/12/08	Mary_Susan
2. At least the americans for whatever reason are protesting th...	08/12/08	paraclete

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