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| Queenybee - some answers to your continuing concerns |
Saladin |
04/12/05 |
Mormons, Jews Set Up Group to Study Concerns
SALT LAKE CITY — Leaders of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints have acted not only with goodwill, but also with integrity and honesty in decade-long discussions over Jewish concerns about proxy baptisms, it was stated today.
Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the Presidency of the Seventy, was commenting after discussions with Jewish guests who had been invited to Salt Lake City to discuss the issue.
Disagreement had arisen over interpretation of a memorandum of understanding that was drafted in 1995, after some Jews objected to Holocaust victims’ names being used in Latter-day Saint temple ceremonies. Church members believe these ceremonies extend significant blessings to departed souls.
In February, the Church invited several Jews concerned with the issue to Salt Lake City for discussions, and today’s meeting was the result of that invitation. Representatives of the Family and Church History Department spent considerable time explaining the processes and mechanisms that have been put in place to ensure consistency, as far as possible, with Church policies and procedures.
Both sides later characterized the meeting as cordial and respectful, and said they believed the relationships between the participants had been “fortified and deepened.” Elder Christofferson said while the Jewish visitors came with specific concerns, they spoke respectfully of the Church and its beliefs, while Church leaders emphasized that those feelings of respect were mutual.
The most concrete result of the meeting was a decision to set up a joint, ad hoc committee with representatives from both sides to examine and resolve remaining concerns. The committee will begin meeting within the next six weeks.
After the meeting, Elder Christofferson emphasized that the Church had always kept its side of the understanding.
“In 1995, we made an extraordinary gesture of goodwill to our Jewish friends by recognizing special sensitivities over Holocaust victims,” he said.
At that time, some 380,000 names of Holocaust victims were removed by the Church from display in the public database known as the International Genealogical Index, or IGI, which is freely available to researchers on the Internet. Church members and other genealogical enthusiasts often use the IGI in gathering data on their ancestors.
In addition, he said the Church had over the years removed from display in the IGI the names of deceased Jews when they had been made known to Church officers. A letter from the governing First Presidency of the Church was read in Sunday meetings worldwide in June 1995, urging Church members to submit for temple ordinances the names of their own ancestors, and not the names of deceased celebrities or Jewish holocaust victims.
===============
Proxy baptism issue is resolved
LDS and Jews: The two groups reaffirm a previous agreement
By Peggy Fletcher Stack
The Salt Lake Tribune
Jewish and Mormon leaders came to an amicable resolution Monday about the continued appearance of Jewish names on the LDS Church's genealogical index, used for the church's controversial practice of doing proxy baptisms for the dead.
Ernest Michel, chairman of the New York-based World Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors, called the meetings "warm and satisfactory."
Essentially the two groups affirmed their 1995 agreement, in which The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints agreed to discontinue vicarious baptisms for Jewish victims and most other Jews as well as remove their names from the giant computerized International Genealogical Index - unless they are direct ancestors of current church members.
They also created a joint oversight committee to be convened within six weeks that will explore reasons why the names keep popping up on the list.
Mormon leaders claim it is due to an unmanageably large list with billions of names and overzealous members who are not following church President Gordon B. Hinckley's directive to limit their submissions to those in their own family lines.
"My parents were baptized by the Mormon church. I am a Holocaust survivor who has strong feelings about this," Michel told reporters outside the LDS Family History Library in Salt Lake City. "I believe we have made progress which is important to survivors and to the Jewish community and to the [LDS] Church."
In a proxy baptism, a living Mormon is baptized by full immersion in water in the name of a deceased individual. Such baptism is essential for salvation, they believe, but it takes effect only if the person accepts the ritual in the afterlife.
Several Jewish groups were incensed by the practice, suggesting similarities between medieval crusades to baptize them by force.
Not wishing to offend, the LDS Church in 1995 removed nearly 400,000 names and data of Holocaust victims and gave them to various Jewish organizations, including the United States Holocaust Memorial Council in Washington D.C., the Wiesenthal Center in Los Angeles and Yad Vashem Holocaust Memorial in Jerusalem.
But thousands of Jewish names that were deleted have reappeared on the list, said Salt Lake City researcher Helen Radkey. And many more new ones have appeared.
On Sunday, Radkey gave Michel 5,376 Jewish names on the church's list, of which she believes 3,416 are Holocaust victims.
She found them by searching for last names "commonly used by Jews" and "a death date between 1942 and 1945."
"The bottom line is the [1995] agreement has not been kept," she said. "I'm skeptical of the problem being handled [with a new committee] because I've seen so much data. I hope the decision is not just a political one."
David Elcott, director of interreligious affairs for the American Jewish Committee, said the Jewish contingent was attacking the problem with computer and human legwork to identify families and names that should not appear on the index.
Mormons and Jews have reaffirmed their agreement several times since 1995. In 2002, New York Sen. Hillary Clinton met with Utah's Orrin Hatch to discuss the problem, although neither would discuss it publicly.
Concerns emerged again last fall after Michel hired Radkey to find Jewish names on the Mormon list. Michel expressed his frustrations in letters to LDS officials, who in turn invited him to meet this week for face-to-face discussion.
Elder D. Todd Christofferson, a member of the church's high-ranking Presidency of the Seventy, extended the invitation to Michel and several colleagues, including his friend Herbert Kronish and Elcott.
The group first met for a dinner at the Inn at Temple Square attended by LDS Apostle Boyd K. Packer.
On Monday, they had a sometimes painful but always "cordial and respectful" discussion, Christofferson said.
"We've always been able to talk candidly," Christofferson said. "The trust that's been there has been there since the beginning."
Elcott said the two faiths share a history of persecution for their beliefs. "That was incredibly important to our conversations. We understand each other in a fundamental way."
Contact Salt Lake Tribune writer at: pstack@sltrib.com
===============================
The LDS Church's response to baptism by proxy concerns:
Excerpts from a Nov. 14, 2003 letter from Elder D. Todd Christofferson of the LDS Church's Presidency of the Seventy to Ernest W. Michel, executive vice president emeritus of the United Jewish Appeal-Federation of New York.
Signatories to the 1995 memorandum agreed that several steps described in that document, if undertaken by the LDS Church, would allay their concerns.
Based on that understanding, the church has done the following:
* The names of nearly 400,000 persons identified as Jewish Holocaust victims were deleted from the church's International Genealogical Index (IGI), and the American Gathering of Jewish Holocaust Survivors was so informed.
* Names and information identifying the Jewish Holocaust victims were gifted to the United States Holocaust Memorial Museum and other entities specified.
* In addition to the names of Jewish Holocaust victims, the church has removed from the IGI the names of other deceased Jews when "known or identified" to church officers; whenever the church has become aware of members submitting names of unrelated Jews for vicarious baptism in contravention of current church policy, it has corrected them.
* The First Presidency issued a directive to church members not to submit the names of unrelated persons for vicarious baptism, and this policy continues to be incorporated in all relevant church literature.
As a demonstration of good will, the church has continued to honor requests to remove names of persons from the IGI who are known or identified to the church as Jews but are not ancestors of church members.
It has done so not only where the name was entered after the date of the memorandum, but for pre-1995 entries as well.
The church did not agree to find and remove the names of all deceased Jews in the 400 million-name IGI. That would be an impossible undertaking.
=====================
I trust that this will help you to see how things stand, and what steps the Church has taken to not only allay the fears of Scottish Jehobvah's Witnesses, but also the concerns arising from the Jewish Community.
:)
Ronnie
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Clarification/Follow-up by queenybee on 04/14/05 5:37 am:
Worldwide Report 2003
Branches of Jehovah’s Witnesses:109
Number of Lands Reporting: 235
Total Congregations:95,919
Worldwide Memorial Attendance: 16,097,622
Witnesses Preaching Each Month: 6,184,046
***Total Number Baptized: 258,845 in one year.
Average Pioneers (missionaries)Each Month: 825,185
Total Hours Spent in Field:1,234,796,477
Home Bible Studies Each Month:5,726,509
I think you will see that clearly beats your numbers.
Clarification/Follow-up by Saladin on 04/14/05 5:54 am:
Impressive.
Adherents.com presents:
Religious Bodies of the World with at Least 1 Million Adherents
Researchers referring to this list may be reminded that divisions into separate religious bodies do not always indicate theological distinctions, but may be primarily geographical and administrative in purpose.
Conversely, individuals and congregations within a single religious body exhibit varying degrees of variation with regards to belief, practice, etc.
Although religious bodies are not always the primary vehicle of doctrinal distinctiveness, they are usually the primary focus of other resources of a religious group, such as finances, legal status, property, educational facilities, leadership, and membership.
This list includes all truly international religious bodies with at least 1 million adherents.
All known regional and national independent religious bodies (those which are organized in only one or two countries, such as the Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland or Church of South India) are also included if they have at least 1 million adherents.
Possibly a few independent national bodies have been omitted if we are not aware of them.
At the bottom of this page there are some Interesting Facts based on this list.
Many of the figures here are estimates.
Different methods have been used to collect these figures.
Where possible, the figures shown here are for adherents, a larger and more inclusive figure than members.
Details may be found in the detailed source notes for each group found in the main Adherents.com listing, although currently a few of the religious bodies on this list are not yet incorporated into the main, online Adherents.com database.
Religious Body - Number of Adherents
Catholic Church** 1,100,000,000
Sunni Islam* 1,000,000,000
Eastern Orthodox Church* 225,000,000
Jinja Honcho* 83,000,000
Anglican Communion* 76,000,000
Assemblies of God* 50,000,000
Ethiopian Orthodox Church 35,000,000
Evangelische Kirche in Deutschland (EKD)* 27,400,000
Sikhism 23,000,000
Juche (North Korea) 19,000,000
Southern Baptist Convention* 16,000,000
Jehovah's Witnesses** 15,597,746
Seventh-day Adventist Church 12,894,005
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12,275,822
United Methodist Church* 11,708,887
Soka Gakkai 11,000,000
New Apostolic Church 10,260,000
Ahmadiyya * 10,000,000
Veerashaivas (Lingayats) 10,000,000
Coptic Orthodox 10,000,000
Sathya Sai Baba 10,000,000
Church of Uganda 8,000,000
Choge Buddhism 8,000,000
Church of Sweden 7,399,915
Church of God in Christ 6,500,000
Kimbanguist Church 6,500,000
Bahai World Faith 6,000,000
Universal Church of the Kingdom of God
(Igreja Universal do Reino de Deus) 6,000,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in America 5,500,000
China Christian Council 5,000,000
Rissho Koseikai 5,000,000
Swaminarayanism 5,000,000
Aglipayan Church 4,500,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church of Finland 4,400,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Denmark 4,350,000
Iglesia ni Cristo (mostly in the Philippines) 4,000,000
Church of God (Cleveland, Tennessee) 4,000,000
Kale Heywet (SIM, Ethiopia) 4,000,000
Church of Norway (Evangelical Lutheran) 3,850,000
Church of South India 3,800,000
Armenian Apostolic Church 3,500,000
Christian Congregation (Brazil) 3,120,000
National Baptist Convention of America 3,106,000
"God is Love" Pentecostal Church (Igreja Pentecostal "Deus e Amo") 3,000,000
Zion Christian Church (South Africa) 3,000,000
Cao Dai 3,000,000
Ch'ondogyo 3,000,000
Church of the Lord Aladura 3,000,000
Reiyukai 3,000,000
United Church of Canada 3,000,000
International Church of the Foursquare Gospel 2,863,232
Balinese Hinduism 2,800,000
Christian and Missionary Alliance 2,644,296
Netherlands Reformed Church (NHK) 2,600,000
Lutheran Church - Missouri Synod 2,582,440
Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) 2,560,201
Protestant Christian Batak Church
(Huria Kristen Batak Protestan -- HKBP, Indonesia) 2,500,000
Evangelical Churches of West Africa 2,500,000
Progressive National Baptist Convention 2,500,000
Tenrikyo 2,350,000
United Pentecostal Church International 2,300,000
Evangelical Lutheran Church in Tanzania 2,200,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Haptong) 2,094,338
Africa Inland Church (Kenya) 2,000,000
Brazil for Christ 2,000,000
Churches of Christ 2,000,000
Church of Jesus Christ in Madagascar 2,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church ("Jacobite") 2,000,000
Radhasoami 2,000,000
United Synagogue of Conservative Judaism 2,000,000
True (Old Calendar) Orthodox Church of Greece 2,000,000
Reformed Church in Hungary 2,000,000
American Muslim Society 2,000,000
Presbyterian Church of Korea (Tonghap) 1,660,248
Council of Baptist Churches of NE India 1,630,000
Ethiopian Evangelical Church Mekane Yesus 1,625,994
Baptist Bible Fellowship International 1,600,000
Salvation Army 1,500,000
Myanmar Baptist Convention 1,500,000
Malagasy Lutheran Church (Madagascar) 1,500,000
American Baptist Churches in the U.S.A. 1,455,855
Brazilian Baptist Convention 1,440,000
Dutch Reformed Church (NGK; South Africa) 1,403,180
Alawi 1,400,000
Council of Evangelical Methodist Churches
of Latin America and the Caribbean 1,400,000
Uniting Church in Australia 1,386,000
United Church of Christ 1,377,320
Christ Apostolic Church (Nigeria) 1,300,000
Union of American Hebrew Congregations (Reform) 1,300,000
Pentecostal Church of Indonesia 1,280,000
African Methodist Episcopal Zion Church 1,252,369
Church of Central Africa, Presbyterian (CCAP; Malawi) 1,250,000
Nigerian Baptist Convention 1,250,000
Church of the Nazarene 1,216,657
African Methodist Episcopal Church 1,200,000
Divine Light Mission 1,200,000
Church of God Miss. Intl. (Nigeria) 1,200,000
British Methodist Church 1,200,000
Church of North India 1,125,000
Christian Churches and Churches of Christ 1,070,000
Christian Church (Disciples of Christ) 1,043,943
United Orthodox Jewish Congregation of America 1,043,943
Lott Carey Baptist Foreign Mission Convention, USA 1,050,000
Evangelical Church of the Lutheran Confession in Brazil 1,000,000
ISKCON 1,000,000
Syrian Orthodox Church of Malabar (Mar Thoma) 1,000,000
National Primitive Baptist Convention of the U.S.A. 1,000,000
Pentecostal Assemblies of the World 1,000,000
PL Kyodan 1,000,000
Sekai Kyuseikyo 1,000,000
Church of Christ in Nigeria 1,000,000
Unity Church 1,000,000
Igreja Evangelica Pentecostal (Brazil) 1,000,000
Church of Scotland 1,000,000
Sukyo Mahikari 1,000,000
---------------------------------------------
** Jehovah's Witnesses: This 15+ million figure is the approximate number of adherents -- intended to reflect all those who consider Jehovah's Witnesses their preferred faith, regardless of current activity status.
Figure is based on reported once-a-year memorial attendance (adjusted).
Actual number of publishers was 6 million worldwide in 1999.
Worldwide, the number of practicing Jehovah's Witnesses may actually be higher than the number of practicing [attending] Anglicans.
==========================================
Top 10 Largest Highly International Religious Bodies
These are religious bodies in which at least 30% of their world membership live outside the "core country" (country with the largest number of members).
Religious Body Number of Adherents
Catholic Church 1,100,000,000
Sunni Islam 875,000,000
Eastern Orthodox Church 225,000,000
Anglican Communion* 76,000,000
Assemblies of God 50,000,000
Jehovah's Witnesses 15,597,746
Seventh-day Adventists 12,894,005
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints 12,275,822
New Apostolic Church 10,260,000
Ahmadiyya 10,000,000
Bahai World Faith 6,000,000
=======================
As you can see, we are closing on you fast and will soon overtake you as our annual percentage growth rate is the highest of any Christian denomination.
If truth were only about NUMBERS, I guess you would have to give it to your Roman Catholic friends.
:)
Ronnie
Clarification/Follow-up by queenybee on 04/15/05 10:57 pm:
"annual percentage growth rate is the highest of any Christian denomination".
that depends on how you arrive at your numbers, our annual percentage of growth is due purely to people studying the bible with JW's and then becoming one themselves and is the highest on record.
During the 2003 service year, 2,340 Kingdom Halls were completed around the world. This represents an average of 195 halls per month, or just over 6 per day!
I met 2 Mormons a while ago and they were amazed that we had 30 Witnesses meeting to preach that morning, as opposed to their 2 selves, and they said "If we had as many preaching,what a growth we would see"
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