Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/04/03 3:23 am:
No, you are confusing morals and ethics.
They are interchangable. And if you were in the philosophy world you would switch them opposite from the law world.
In some places morals are a set of rules about right and wrong and ethics are a determination of right and wrong. They are the reverse in other places. Get a good dictionary and look them both up.
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/04/03 7:57 am:
Nope. Morals and ethics are NOT interchageable, at least not in American society. Ethics are more tied to the Laws of the land then the Morals which are tied to the religions of the land. Given the great diversity of religions, morals are equally divers. While ethics remain reasonably consistent due to their tie in with the law.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/04/03 9:47 am:
I am an American.
Do you have any proof to back that up?
Did you even look in a dictionary?
Did you go to school for law, medicine or philosophy? Because you would have had to go to school for all three to know what I'm talking about.
Go do a modicum of research on the subject before you make pedantic exclamations w2hich perpetuate the confusion of the already occluded mess that surrounds the subject of morals and ethics. As you are talking to someone who has studied it for over a decade.
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/04/03 10:01 am:
I will use the contraversial issue of Abortion as an example. For Christians it is both immoral and unethical to have an abortion. For Jews, it is neither since the fetus is part of the mother and it can be removed as if it is tumor. By law it is alowed even though many Christians feel that it is immoral and unethical. By law it is ethical to have an abortion. The morality lies between the worman and her view of G-D or religion. This is but one example of many where the moral/religious views come in direct conflict with the law or the generally accepted ethical behavior of the broader population. Thus, ethics and morals are different based upon religion, cultural bias and up brining while ethics are based generally on law but also is defined by the broader general culture as to what constitues proper behavior in given situations.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/04/03 1:13 pm:
That is an example which is obviously appropriately skewed by your particular background.
It is one example. But, it is not a full explanation of the full breadth of the problems with the words.
My entire point being, I did not misuse the words.
I would love to switch this subject to one of content if you'd like to talk about that.
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/04/03 3:51 pm:
By my particular background?? And what might that be?
There are semantic and culturally biased viewes of both words, ethics and morality. They can be twisted to fulfill various kinds of definitions. The implication that I have " the words" is rather odd given the definition I have previously provided as a basis. As a medical ethicist the issue of abortion, termination of life, religious objection to procedures does play a role in my life. As a business ethicist, I work on a daily basis with ethical issues which have nothing to do with religion or morality but points of law and differences in culture. Morality rarely plays a part except in the medical cases.
In other words what is right or wrong to you or I, may be very different for someone from China, Korea, India or other places. These are ethical issues, not moral ones.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/05/03 3:45 am:
Actually these are moral issues as well.
Did you not hear me when I said that they are interchangable?
Look, any good dictionary you look them up in will have ethics as a standard of right and wrong. It will also have it as virtuous actions and goodness. The exact same general definitions with different wording will be applied to morals.
Go to m-w.com or dictionary.com and study the words.
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/05/03 5:07 am:
From Websters Unabridged dictionary:
Ethics: refers to rules and standards of conduct and practice.
Morals: refers to generally accepted customs of conduct and right living in a society, and to an individuals practice in relation to these.
So based on these definitions, one is written and standardized and the other is cultural or religious in nature and generally unwritten. Which is what I have been using to distinguish between the two. Also each culture, religion, society will have different moral expectations while the standardized ethical behavior is expected from all people regardless of culture or religion.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/05/03 6:06 am:
Did you happen to notice that there was more than one definition.
Go re-read ALL the definitions this time and you'll see what I'm talking about
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/05/03 7:23 am:
Yes I did in deed see many definitions. But the basis of morals is morals and ethics is ethics yes they do intertwine because of the " and wrong" aspects but these are the legal definitions used by legal authorities as well as the UN.
The French for instance define morals as the philosophy of behavior in life while Ethics is the science and study of Morals.
The Japanese define morals as how we are precieved in following the rules of conduct while Ethics are the rules of conduct.
In parts of India, Ethics are the hard and fast rules taught to children while morals are the philosophy behind these rules.
As you can see they are tied together in various cultures but are seen as different and their useages are different depending on culture. Toss in religion and it changes again.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/05/03 2:39 pm:
So, what's you point in saying that I mixed them up?
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/05/03 5:36 pm:
My point is, that morals are seen as more philosophical while ethics are seen as more concrete. You, as a student of philosophy have been trained to see them both as one and the same. While I have been trained to see them as seperate entities or portals. Neither of us is wrong, it is just a difference in training.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/06/03 3:31 am:
That's false
Not only is that not what I think, but that is not what they teach in philosophy.
The dictionary is the only one who is right.
Is there more for us to speak of, hopefully on a different subject.
What is an example (made up I would hope) of a medical dillema you had to make a decision about.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/06/03 3:31 am:
That's false
Not only is that not what I think, but that is not what they teach in philosophy.
The dictionary is the only one who is right.
Is there more for us to speak of, hopefully on a different subject.
What is an example (made up I would hope) of a medical dillema you had to make a decision about.
Clarification/Follow-up by rsalier on 11/06/03 4:14 am:
I do believe that we have exhausted this to the nth degree. Suffice it to say we have slightly differing opinions but we seem to have similar understandings.
Clarification/Follow-up by ethical_reason on 11/06/03 6:43 pm:
yeah, right
