Clarification/Follow-up by arcura on 12/06/06 2:58 pm:
A more accurate question would be, "Where WAS Mary buried."
The reason is that she is no longer buried but in heaven.

Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 12/06/06 4:17 pm:
 

arcura

any PROOF for that claim?
(and I don't mean dogma with "proof").

 

Clarification/Follow-up by arcura on 12/06/06 4:57 pm:
Pericles,
No poof needed or required.
Mary's tomb is empty so her remains are somewhere else.
It is a matter of faith; no matter what you BELEIVE about proof.
No one here needs to provide any proofs you demand.
In fact they should ignore any such you request you make and you as well.

Clarification/Follow-up by Toms777 on 12/06/06 5:55 pm:
Fred,

a claim that you have no evidence is no proof of anything - quite the contrary. Where in scripture does it say that Mary was ascended to heaven bodily?

Anyone could create a tomb and stick no remains in it and sell "artifacts". That proves nothing.

Tom

Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 12/06/06 6:11 pm:
I made a mistake . She was assumed to heaven ;not ascended . No Toms there is no scripural reference to it .The tradition says St. Thomas asked to have her tomb opened but they found it empty. The Apostles thereby concluded that she was taken up to heaven both body and soul.I guess all the early Christians ,including the Apostles who believed this are also heretics and in hell.

Clarification/Follow-up by arcura on 12/06/06 6:44 pm:
Toms,
What an imagination you have. WOW!!!
So back when Mary died someone built an empty tomb and sold artifacts from it.
Or it that idea something you twisted out of Holy Scripture.
I would not be surprise if you did because you do so much Scripture twisting.

Clarification/Follow-up by HANK1 on 12/06/06 8:17 pm:

Fred: I didn't mean that literally. Guess I meant she was taken by God immediately upon her death.

Clarification/Follow-up by peddler7118 on 12/06/06 9:16 pm:
Fred
Denying the claims of the organization responsible for the greatest fraud in history, the False Decretals is twisting scripture?
BTW if Mary acended why did they bury her in the first place?
You are saying she was resurrected.
That is blasphemy.

Clarification/Follow-up by Toms777 on 12/06/06 11:28 pm:
Hey Fred,

You sure make a lot of conclusions, bnut haven't seen much in the way of evidence yet.

Tom

Clarification/Follow-up by HANK1 on 12/06/06 11:51 pm:


Mischa: Do you KNOW for sure, hot shot?

Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 12/07/06 1:16 am:
 

arcura

"No poof (sic) needed or required."

No : proof is always required. An empty grave is easy and quickly to erect.

---

"Mary's tomb is empty so her remains are somewhere else."

Maybe there never was such a tomb at all, because in reality there are no virgins who give birth to a baby.
So maybe Mary as a pregnant virgin never existed at all ....

 

Clarification/Follow-up by madddawg on 12/07/06 4:27 am:
As a sinner Mary would have died, and her body will remain in the ground until she is caught up, with the other saints to meet the Lord in the air. (1 Thessalonians 4:16-18) Opps, sorry, I forgot that you don't believe in the translation of the church.

Clarification/Follow-up by arcura on 12/07/06 4:36 am:
Please PROVE that she was a sinner.
Please PROVE that her body is in the ground.
Please PROVE that she is not a heavenly saint now.
You’re assuming all that, simply because you fail to believe that Jesus was perfect in all respects.

Clarification/Follow-up by Toms777 on 12/07/06 4:44 am:
Fred,

1) Mary needed a Saviour. A sinless person does not need a Saviour.

Luke 1:47
47 And my spirit has rejoiced in God my Savior.
NKJV

2) Since ascensions ia a unique event, it would be up to you to prove an ascension. If you claim that unless we can physically prove a body is in the ground that it must have ascended, then that would mean that the majority of people who ever live ascended and if that were the case, then it would be nothing special, taking away the importance of it for Mary.

On the other hand, it is a logic fallacy to claim claim that lack of evdince proves that she was ascended.

3) She is indeed a heavenly saint. That is our point.

4) Jesus was and is perfect in all respects. mary wasn't.

Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 12/07/06 9:13 am:
since Mary's death is not recorded in the scriptures doesn't that mean that she didn't die ?


Sorry ;just applying the same logic that is being used by some here.

Clarification/Follow-up by Toms777 on 12/07/06 1:37 pm:
Heb 9:27
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:
KJV

Unless otherwise stated in scripture, she died.

Clarification/Follow-up by arcura on 12/08/06 3:08 am:
Toms,
Mary’s Immaculate Conception saved her from being a sinner as a result Jesus was born sinless.
I really don't care whether you believe Mary was assumed into heaven.
But I object to you saying she was a sinner.

Clarification/Follow-up by Toms777 on 12/09/06 12:34 am:
Fred,

Mary herself said that she needed a Saviour and thus was a sinner - and this is recorded in the Holy Spirit inspired Bible.

Who should I believe - mary and the Holy Spirit or you?

Sorry Fred, but you lose that debate. I'll trust the very words of mary and the Holy Spirit.

I note that you have yet to show me any scripture which says that Mary was born sinless.

Tom

Clarification/Follow-up by madddawg on 12/09/06 5:40 pm:
Saint Thomas 777
Doesn't the book of Romans confirm that Mary was sinless?
For all (BUT MARY) have sinned, and come short of the glory of God; Romans 3:23