Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/02/06 1:56 am:
Hello again, JD:
So, you think these Senators just voted to GIVE benefits, THAT YOU AND I PAY FOR, to illegal aliens. And the only thing they have to do to earn them, is BE illegal.
JD, you better check your facts.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by MarySusan on 10/02/06 3:51 am:
Are you saying that illegal aliens who work in the US can collect social security under the fake social security number they use, and that these Senators voted so they could???
Please clarify or give a reference.
Did you know that the American government profits greatly from the monies withheld for social security and medicare from illegals paychecks because they don't file for payouts when they reach the age of retirement??
Clarification/Follow-up by Judgment_Day on 10/02/06 11:12 am:
I'm stating that if a person doesn't not pay into Social Security then they should not get a share of Social Security and as Mary suggested how would they declare benefits anyhow?
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/02/06 11:57 am:
Hello again, JD:
So, if they DID pay into SS, then you agree they should receive benefits EVEN though their legal status may be questionable.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 10/02/06 12:15 pm:
All the more reason to have everyone in the country legally documnented. I agree ,it is a travesty that they are paying into the system with no hope of reimbursment. JD ;they are paying in by obtaining false ID . Many of them also do not file income tax returns even though they are most likely eligible for a refund . They are afraid to. This illegal immigration issue is a mess that needs alot of fixing . The fence is a good start but then the harder issues need to be addressed.
Clarification/Follow-up by MarySusan on 10/02/06 7:11 pm:
JD, I don't think you know what you are talking about.
Everything you said makes no sense.
Can you give a reputable reference to what you are talking about?
Thanks.
Clarification/Follow-up by Judgment_Day on 10/02/06 10:49 pm:
Excon,
"So, if they DID pay into SS, then you agree they should receive benefits EVEN though their legal status may be questionable."
Not so fast. Immigrants need to be legal first, but after going through the process "yes."
Tomder55,
I agree. Excellent commentary.
MarySusan,
"Everything you said makes no sense.
Can you give a reputable reference to what you are talking about?
No problem. I want you on the same page as Excon, Tomder55, Drgrade, Captainoutragous, and myself. Not that you have to agree with any of us, but the reference is in regards to "senators who voted to give illegal aliens Social Security benefits." The list of senators are the politicians that in effect think that illegal aliens should get a pass on their illegal status or get a reduction on the fast track and bypass our country's normal immigration procedures so as to receive the benefit Social Security benefits in the future. Some people agree with these senators voted intentions and others disagree. I'm one of many that disagree. I think they should go through the legal immigration procedures.
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/03/06 12:40 pm:
Hello again, JD:
Yes, yes and yes! They SHOULD go through the legal immigration procedures!
But, due to the inaction of your congress, 23 million or so of them DIDN'T! You can't pretend they don't exist because you don't like what they did.
Look, people SHOULDN'T drink and drive. But, we don't ignore those that do.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by Judgment_Day on 10/03/06 12:49 pm:
I agree that Congress is often more concerned about their own paychecks than prevention and resolve. However Congress didn't send mailers to Mexican residents inviting migrants to come here illegally. I agree we don't ignore drunk drivers and we should not ignore illegals. I think illegals should have to go through the same legal immigration procedures they avoided originally or face an eviction process.
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/03/06 2:18 pm:
Hello again, JD:
Fine, wonderful, and we agree. However, you keep skipping around, and I won't let you off the hook.
LET'S EVICT 'EM. No problem. Do we ALSO cheat them out of the benefits they've been paying for, some for as long as 30 years?
I didn't even mention, as tom did, the overpayment of income taxes that they're due AND DON'T GET. We're only talking bout SS here.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by Judgment_Day on 10/03/06 2:27 pm:
I've been answering your propositions directly and I no plans to permit illegal aliens off the hook. As far as I'm concerned (and I would vote this way) all illegal individuals do not have worker rights and forfeits all benefits. Too bad! They should had gone through the legal process upon immigration.
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/03/06 2:31 pm:
Hello JD:
Look. I'm not trying to make you look bad. I think you didn't understand the situation, just as most Americans don't understand the immigration situation.
My point in all this, is that you (along with the rest of the country) bought into the crap congress is slinging, blaming everybody but themselves, when it THEMSELVES, and only themselves to blame for the situation.
Hardworking BROWN people, who only want to provide for their family, are NOT to blame.
Indeed, if you were hungry, and you saw a job that you could do, just over that imaginary line there, and the authorities told you 5 years..... In the real world, where people are hungry, and if you were too, you wouldn't wait. Of course, you wouldn't.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by Judgment_Day on 10/03/06 9:07 pm:
I never was nor have been insulted by our dialogue in any way. I appreciate you and your opinion...though I don't agree with your conclusions. Yes! Hard working people with a legal status no matter the color. By legal status that means permanent resident or working visa. Color shouldn't be a criteria for legality nor is it the issue. My wife is brownish yellow...she's part Chinese ancestry. So what?! My family abides by the laws of this land (US). I don't always agree with the laws of the US either and I'm a citizen. But I just can't arbitrarily break them and not expect a consequence. Neither is it acceptable for a poor man to rob a bank with your money at risk just because he's broke. You know that want fly in a court of law. We have guidelines and procedures. Of course there are many families that wish to have a better life in the US. I openly invite all those wishing to migrate to go through the legal immigration procedures.
