Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 09/25/06 1:20 pm:
The Israelis created Israel... back about 3500 years ago. The UN simply reiterated what we already knew. And then the UN jerks didn't even stick by its own resolutions... they didn't send in any sort of "peace-keeping force" to protect the Israelis when they were attacked on the eve of their creation as a state in 1948. They were, in fact, hoping that the Jews would be destroyed quickly so that they could say "Well, we tried, but those pesky Arabs got in the way of our good deed", and then not worry about the Jews anymore. When the Jews survived that initial assault, built a state and became a powerful military and economic power in the Middle East, the UN was stuck with a problem that they didn't know how to solve... the problem of having legitimized something that they really wished would go away... a problem that they had hoped the Arabs would take care of for them.

So no, I don't like or respect the UN, never have and never will, even on the topic of the creation of Israel.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by paraclete on 09/26/06 12:21 am:
Hey, Elliot, I don't remember the US, or Britain, rushing in there either perhaps they had their hands full elsewhere, but they were quick to rush to the defense of arabs when Kuwait was invaded and look where that got us.

AS to creating Israel, I was referring to the modern state, not the state that was overrun by the Assyrians and ceased to exist, when was it? about 2,700 years ago. You Jews have convient memories. I think the offer to move to Australia is still open, I suggest Kangaroo Island, about the right size

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 09/26/06 12:34 pm:
Clete,

>>>I'm not saying that Saddam shouldn't have been opposed I'm just drawing the parallel between how much the US helped Israel and How much they helped the Arabs, no comparison really<<<

And what's wrong with that? Israel is an ally with a mutual defense pact with the USA, as well as being a democracy with the same basic values as the USA. Why should the USA treat Israel as the same as the Arabs when the Arabs don't share a mutual defense pact, trade agreements, capitalist values and democratic values with the USA? If you want special ally status, you need to act like a special ally, and the Arab countries don't.

>>>As I recall and once again your memory is convient, the Romans in 135 AD destroyed Judah and the Jews were forbidden to live in Palistine so much for unbroken residency.<<<

You recall incorrectly. It is true that most of the Jews were exiled, but in the cities of Safed, Jerricho, Jerusalem, Hebron and others there were large groups of Jews that lived there in an unbroken string of ownership. Since the time of Joshua, there has NEVER been a time in which Jews did not live in Israel. That cannot be said of any other group, including the Palestinian Arabs, who actually lived in Jordan.

>>>Elliot I don't deny the Jews right to the land, but given the Palistians residency you can't deny them a right to be there too, You can't just come back and say this is not your place.<<<

First of all, if you read the historical accounts of the land of "Palestine" there wee no Arabs living there... or very few anyway. Mark Twain describned the land as a barren wateland with no life. Balfour described the land as being inhabbited by a few bedouins (nomads that don't have a claim to any land) and other than that an empty desert. So to claim that the Arabs have a history there is just plain wrong. It wasn't until the Jews started coming back to the land and making it habitable that the Arabs started living there. So the claim of the Arabs to the land because of their long term residency is dubious at best.

Second, when the State of Israel came into being in 1948, the Jews were quite willing to let the Arabs live in peace alongside them. The Arabs chose to attack instead. And after that, Moshe Dayan (wrongly, in my opinion) invited them to come back again and live in peace alongside the Jews. They attacked again in56, 63 and 67. And only after all these wars were started by the Arabs did Israel take the action of pushing the borders back to the post 1967 lines. Israel tried time and again to acknowledge the Arabs' claim to the land alongside them. But how many times can you be attacked before you have to take harsh measures to avoid future attacks? How many times can you be slapped in the face before you decide to slap back in self defense? (Keep in mind, we're not Christians... we don't normally turn the other cheek. But we did on numerous occaisions with the Arabs anyway.)

Since then, Israel has made numerous offers to allow the Palestinian Arabs to have their own state next to Israel if they would just stop their terrorist attacks against Israel. That's a pretty fair deal, in my humble opinion. Yet it has been rebuffed. Arafat rejected it numerous times. The Palestinian people rejected it again when they elected Hamas, a major terrorist organization, to power in the PA, thus rejecting the idea of a two-state solution that leaves Israel alone and in peace.

So I believe that Israel has done its part in trying to work with the Arabs and recognize their claims, dubious as they are. But they haver been rebuffed at every turn. What more is there for them to do? What more responsibility do the Israelis have to a people determined to destroy Israel, no matter the cost?

>>>Kangaroo Island is about the size and shape of Israel, but sorry no mountains. Great beaches though, great climate and great fishing,<<<

Sounds like Eilat.

>>>and guess what the best part, no arabs, I suggested the Jews because of their skill in making the desert bloom, the Palistians lack the skill and will to survive there but I would expect the Jews to prosper<<<

The Jews were blessed with the ability to make Israel bloom when nobody else could.

Deuteronomy
28:1 If you obey God your Lord, carefully keeping all His commandments as I am prescribing them to you today, then God will make you highest of all the nations on earth.
28:2 As long as you listen to God your Lord, all these blessings will come to bear on you.
28:3 Blessed will you be in the city, and blessed in the field.
28:4 Blessed will be the fruit of your womb, the fruit of your soil, and the fruit of your livestock, the calves of your herds and the lambs of your flock.
28:5 Blessed will be your food basket and your kneading bowl.
28:6 Blessed will you be when you come and blessed when you go.
28:7 If any enemies attack you, God will make them flee from you in panic. They may march against you on one road, but they will flee from you in seven directions.
28:8 God will grant a blessing in your granaries and all your [other] endeavors. He will bless you in the land that He, God your Lord, is giving you.
28:9 If only you keep the commandments of God your Lord and walk in His paths, God will establish you as His holy nation, as He promised you.
28:10 All the nations of the world will realize that God's name is associated with you, and they will be in awe of you.
28:11 God will grant you good surplus in the fruit of your womb, the fruit of your livestock, and the fruit of your land. [You will thus flourish] on the good land that God promised your ancestors to give you.
28:12 God will open His good treasury in heaven to give your land rain at precisely the right time, and to bless everything you do. You will lend many nations, but you will not have to borrow.
28:13 God will make you a leader and never a follower. You will be on the top and never on the bottom. You must merely obey the commandments of God your Lord, as I am prescribing them to you today, carefully keeping them.
28:14 Do not stray to the right or left from all the words that I am commanding you today. [Be especially careful not to] follow other gods or serve them.

That blessing applies to the Jew in the Land of Israel (the land of our ancestors... see 28:11 above). But there is some question as to whether this blessing would apply to any other land, including Australia.

Besides, that kook, Saleh Jamal, makes it pretty clear that even Australia (including Kangaroo Island) is being claimed as an Islamic country by Muslim radicals, and is considered an illegitimate country by radical Islam. So going to Kangaroo Island wouldn't solve the problem... just delay the inevitable.

Elliot