Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 08/17/06 10:09 pm:
You don't get my logic, ex? We ain't talking American drug dealers, we're talking electronic surveillance of international terrorists. It may not be war in the traditional sense but this is war. I have zero qualms about listening in on foreign terrorists with or without a warrant as long as it preserves our right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

I'm with you when it comes to the constitutional rights of American citizens. Heck, I've got a daughter who was sentenced to 8 years in California today, and is about to be extradited to Texas to face more charges. You don't think I care about rights?

I do, but as far as I'm concerned Usama bin Laden and his type have no rights, and unless we use any and all means necessary to stop them we do so at our peril. The left in this country wants to treat them as uniformed members of a sovereign country's military when it comes to detention, but not when it comes to prevention. That's the logic I don't understand, and it has nothing to do with rights. It has everything to with hatred for the president.

The moonbats suffering from Bush Derangement Syndrome are no better than the Islamofascists, they don't mind sacrificing their own to promote their agenda. I don't get that, I want to protect them, too - why do they care nothing about sacrificing me and my family?

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by MicroGlyphics on 08/18/06 11:09 am:
Itsdb, It is intersting that you that "as far as [you're] concerned Usama bin Laden and his type have no rights." Well, let us suppose we wish to replace Usama bin Laden with "Imsdb" and replace his "type" with your "type," categorically. Do you find solace and comfort in that?

Besides, I believe the term "Islamofascist" is no longer in vogue. You need to go back and review your Talking Points. Besides, Islam is not intersted in economic corporatism, which is pretty much an accepted trait in today's definition of fascism, so it might rather be viewed as an oxymoron.

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 08/18/06 11:30 am:
Micro,

I have no "talking points." Now, in reverse order...

Fascism

a. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.

b. A political philosophy or movement based on or advocating such a system of government.

2. Oppressive, dictatorial control.

From the al Qaeda manual:

Islamic governments have never and will never be established through peaceful solutions and cooperative councils. They are established as they [always] have been by pen and gun, by word and bullet, by tongue and teeth...

The young men returning to Allah realized that Islam is not just performing rituals but a complete system: Religion and government, worship and Jihad [holy war], ethics and dealing with people, and the Koran and sword...

Islam does not coincide or make a truce with unbelief, but rather confronts it...

I present this humble effort to these young Moslem men who are pure, believing, and fighting for the cause of Allah. It is my contribution toward paving the road that leads to majestic Allah and establishes a caliphate according to the prophecy...

We cannot resist this state of ignorance unless we unite our ranks, and adhere to our religion. Without that, the establishment of religion would be a dream or illusion that is impossible to achieve or even imagine its achievement...Sheik Ibn Taimia said..."It is necessary that all Adam's children obey."

He [Sheik Inb Taimia] then says, "It should be understood that governing the people's affairs is one of the greatest religious obligations. In fact, without it, religion and world [affairs] could not be established. The interests of Adam's children would not be achieved except in,assembly, because of their mutual need. When they assemble, it is necessary to [have] a leader. Allah's prophet - God bless and keep him - even said, 'If three [people] come together let them pick a leader.' He then necessitated the rule by one of a small, non-essential travel assembly in order to draw attention to the remaining types of assembly. Since Allah has obligated us to do good and avoid the unlawful, that would not be done except through force and lording. Likewise, the rest of what he [God] obligated [us with] would not be accomplished except by force and lordship, be it Jihad [holy war], justice, pilgrimage, assembly, holidays, support of the oppressed, or the establishment of boundaries. That is why it has been said, "the sultan is Allah's shadow on earth...'"

The main mission for which the Military Organization is responsible is:

The overthrow of the godless regimes and their replacement with an Islamic regime.

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From the Hamas charter, Article Five:

"Time extent of the Islamic Resistance Movement: By adopting Islam as its way of life, the Movement goes back to the time of the birth of the Islamic message, of the righteous ancestor, for Allah is its target, the Prophet is its example and the Koran is its constitution. Its extent in place is anywhere that there are Moslems who embrace Islam as their way of life everywhere in the globe. This being so, it extends to the depth of the earth and reaches out to the heaven."

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From Ahmedinejad's letter to Bush:

"We believe a return to the teachings of the divine prophets is the only road leading to salvation...

Will you not accept this invitation? That is, a genuine return to the teachings of prophets, to monotheism and justice, to preserve human dignity and obedience to the Almighty and His prophets?...

We increasingly see that people around the world are flocking towards a main focal point -- that is the Almighty God. Undoubtedly through faith in God and the teachings of the prophets, the people will conquer their problems. My question for you is: "Do you not want to join them?"

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sharia:

the religious law of Islam. As Islam makes no distinction between religion and life, Islamic law covers not only ritual but every aspect of life

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Islamofascism sounds like a good description to me.

>>let us suppose we wish to replace Usama bin Laden with "Imsdb" and replace his "type" with your "type," categorically. Do you find solace and comfort in that?<<

Seems rather pointless to me. I'm a native born, law abiding, American citizen. Usama is an at-large, foreign born terrorist responsible for -in one day - the deaths of over 2600 innocent civilians in New York, 125 fatalities at the pentagon, and 246 on four planes. He's also responsible for over $40 billion in damage claims resulting from the loss of buildings, aircraft, collateral and other damage and $855 million in NYC infrastructure damage.

I see no reason to afford this man any protections, let alone US constitutional rights. He did it, we all know it, we know his goals, the only right that sounds reasonable for him is the right to find out if there really are 72 virgins waiting for him.

Steve