Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 08/09/06 4:01 pm:
MicroGlyphics

I have no doubt you were completely comfortable supporting the Saddam regime that we waged war against from 1990 until his ultimate defeat in OIF (including the decade plus of patrolling no-fly zones and enforcing cease fire provisions he routinely violated ) . I considered his regime a security risk to the US and was glad we decided to take him out . Yes I think it is our resonsibilty to leave a somewhat stable Iraq behind .

Clarification/Follow-up by MicroGlyphics on 08/09/06 6:16 pm:
ET,

You are ignoring in-kind transfers, and corporate subsidies that would not necessarily otherswise occur.

Tom,

Why do you arbitrarily select 1990 as a date of interest? Of course, the answer is that it is not an arbitrary distinction.

Saddam has cordial ties to the US dating back as far as 1959 and continuing through the mid to late 1980s. He didn't change his manner of governing his people suddenly, and all of a sudden the US realised, "Hey, that's no Democracy!! We have to do something."

No, it is the oil. The only thing Saddam interfered with was a cut of oil profits. Of course, he was a pinhead to invade Kuwait, but GHW Bush, who at least had a more justifyable reason to invade Iraq, failed.

Well, like father, like son; The are both losers. Wealthy losers, but losers nonetheless.

Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 08/10/06 7:13 am:
I am not picking any arbitrary dates . For asl long as I can remember I was opposed to the realist view of foreign policy that we could accomodate any type of tyranny for the sake of stability .

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 08/10/06 11:43 am:
Microgliphics,

I am not ignoing anything. In-kind transfers are just that... in-kind--- as in we give them something and we get something in return. That's just business.

As for corporate subsidies, can you name one? As far as I know, Israeli pays the agreed upon price for every piece of equipment it purchases.

As far as I can tell, we (the USA) have gotten as much or more out of this relationship than Israel has. For example:

That computer you are using... the Windows operating system you are using on it was probably developed by Microsoft Israel.

Israeli company Soltam is the creator and producer of the USMC's Slammer howitzer and the Dragon mortar, as well as other artillary.

If you have ever had a heart condition, the heart monitor used by your hospital was probably made by Agis Industries, an Israeli company.

The new intra-nasal flu vaccine that is being widely used here was developed by Biondvax, another Israeli company.

Israel Military Industries Ltd. is one of the US military's biggest providers of military equipment including infantry and artillary weapons, fighter and bomber parts and equipment, and body armor.

And that is just a small number of Israeli companies that produce products for the USA.

The in-kind transfers and the supposed subsidies (all of which are actually included in my numbers from USAID) do not amount to enough to claim that Israel is being subsidized by the USA. The USA is clearly getting measure for measure out of its dealings with Israel. Which is how capitalism is supposed to work.

Elliot