Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/01/06 5:42 pm:
Ronnie,

First of all, people can sing the national anthem in whatever language they desire. THAT is the freedom of the USA. But that doesn't mean that we should make Spanish an official language for the National Anthem. That's not freedom, that's forcing other people's will onto me... forcing me to have to listen to their version of the National Anthem at a sporting event because it was made "official". If I had wanted to live in an Hispanic society, I would have moved there myself.

Second, is it "xenophobia" if the aliens really are invading?

Illegal aliens have broken the law to get here. There is nothing that you can say that makes what they did legal. You might not agree with the law, but it exists, and as long as it does, breaking the law is wrong. There are legitimate reasons to break the law at times. And if someone feels that their situation in Mexico is so bad that they have to come here illegally, then that is their choice. But that doesn't mean that they haven't broken the law. They have. And if they get caught, they should have to face the consequences of those actions... not be rewarded for them.

There are an estimated 11 million Mexicans living in the USA illegally. They have broken the law. Wanting to punish those who break the law isn't xenophobia. It's justice to all those immigrants who came here legally and didn't break the law because it was easier than following the law. I have no problem with those who come here legally. My parents and grandparents are immigrants. I have no problem with foreigners who want to live in the USA. What I have a problem with is those who do so illegally. And wanting to force people to obey the law isn't xenophobia. It's taking a stance for law and order and against anarchy and illegal activity.

As for changing "God Save the Queen"..., we already did that. "My Country 'Tis of Thee" is a copy of the music of God save the Queen, with different words. But the difference is that we are not trying to push it as YOUR national anthem.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/02/06 12:32 am:

Who is even suggesting that your NA in Spanish to be the official version? Perhaps I did it and have forgotten it? Is that the case?

Methinks the lady protesteth too much.

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/02/06 12:58 pm:
Those who wish it to be sung in Spanish are demanding that. THat is the point, Ronnie. Do you think this would be such an issue if people just wanted to sing it in SPanish in their own homes in private? They are trying to make this an OFFICIAL thing. And that is what you are advocating in favor of.

And what about the remix version being sung by Wycleff Jean and Pitbull in which the following is added in English:

"These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws ... let's not start a war with all these hard workers, they can't help where they were born."

Is rhetoric that condemns the USA for its immigration policies appropriate for a national anthem that is SUPPOSED to praise this country? Do you consider this addition an appropriate one?

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/02/06 4:16 pm:
I am unfamiliar with any move to have the Spanish version adopted as the official version. Is this a nation-wide movement that has not been picked up by the networks?

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/02/06 4:35 pm:
Ronnie,

Not "THE" official version, but "AN" official version. It is not a "nation-wide" movement because the illegal immigrants are not part of the "nation", but it is a movement across the entire USA.

There has been a movement to make Spanish an official language for government documentation and government agencies for years. There has been legislation that all business documents by government agencies have to be in English and Spanish. Driving tests have to be given in Spanish as well. This translation of the National Anthem into Spanish in order to make it an "official" or "approved" way of singing the National Anthem is just the next step in the process. And it hasn't been picked up by the networks because they are LIBERAL, just as I have been saying from day one. But it is being talked about in the non-traditional media, including talk radio and in the blogosphere.

But you didn't answer my question above:

"These kids have no parents, cause all of these mean laws ... let's not start a war with all these hard workers, they can't help where they were born."

Is rhetoric that condemns the USA for its immigration policies appropriate for a national anthem that is SUPPOSED to praise this country? Do you consider this addition an appropriate one?


Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/02/06 8:27 pm:
Not all immigrants are illegal.

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/02/06 8:33 pm:
Secretary of State
Condoleezza Rice weighed in on the subject on Sunday, saying she had heard the anthem done in musical genres ranging from rap to classical.

"From my point of view, people expressing themselves as wanting to be Americans is a good thing," Rice said on the CBS show "Face the Nation," adding that the focus needs to be on immigration policy.

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/02/06 9:45 pm:
>>>Not all immigrants are illegal.<<<

Yeah, but the Legal ones want to be Americans and want to sing the National Anthem in English, and to join in American culture. That's why they worked so hard at coming here legally, getting their green cards, and becoming citizens. They see becoming AMERICAN as something worth putting in effort to accomplish. If they wanted to continue being Mexicans and not Americans, they wouldn't have bothered with the extra effort.

>>>"From my point of view, people expressing themselves as wanting to be Americans is a good thing," Rice said on the CBS show "Face the Nation," adding that the focus needs to be on immigration policy. <<<

But do they? How badly do the illegal immigrants want to be Americans if they refuse to follow the rules in getting here, fly the MEXICAN flag at their rallies, and won't even sing the National Anthem in English? If they really want to be Americans, why are they trying so hard to be Mexicans?

I am an American Jew. I do not go around demanding that road signs and government paperwork be produced in Hebrew or Yiddish. I did not demand an Israeli road tester. I conduct my business dealings in English. I sing the National Anthem in English. So do my parents who were born in Germany, and my Grandparents who were born in Poland and immigrated legally. I fly the American flag OVER (and to the right of) the Israeli flag at events and functions I attend. I am an American and I'm proud of it. I am also Jewish and proud of it. But I do not subsume my American identity to my Jewish identity and demand that the country meet me on my terms.

Please don't tell me that the people coming to this country illegally, flying foreign flags over or instead of the American flag, demanding everything in their foreign languages, and singing the National Anthem in foreign languages want to be Americans. What they want is the social and monetary advantages of being American, without having to exert themselves to become American by learning the predominant language in order to conduct their business. You don't become an American by demanding that the country conform to YOUR culture. You become American by learning to become part of OUR culture. And having the National Anthem in Spanish isn't it.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/02/06 9:58 pm:
America does not have "A" culture. Its has many cultures, and many mixtures of cultures.

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/02/06 10:00 pm:
No, it has ONE American culture that takes a little from everywhere. It is a called the "melting pot" for a reason. We don't dump out the brew to accomodate one group or the other. We take what that group has to offer and add it to the brew. But what the illegals are trying to do is get us to dump out the brew and create a special concoction just for them. If we do that, we WILL lose the American culture.

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/03/06 2:17 am:
That is arrant nonsense.

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/03/06 1:03 pm:
No it isn't. And it is the same in the UK... a microcosm of many cultures that together create their own national identity sepparate from all others. A Yorkshire man like you wouldn't change that national identity for anything, would you? If Indian immigrants to the UK demanded that you start printing documents and signs in Hindi, demanded that you start singing God Save the Queen in Hindi at rugby, football or cricket matches, and demanded that you provide them with free services like medical and educational services, but refused to obey the laws, including your laws for entering the country in the first place, wouldn't you take issue with it? Because that is what is happening here.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 05/03/06 6:25 pm:


Elliott,

I am surprised at just how wrong you are.


There is a political group in the UK that demands (not too strong a word) that all ethnic - by which they mean non-white - people conform to what they mistakenly (in the same way that you are mistaken) call “The British Way of Life.” There is no single identifiable strand of culture that can be properly assigned the title “The British Way of Life.” To assert that there is, as the British National Party (‘National’ as in ‘Nazi’ if you get my drift), is to make The Big Lie with no intent other than to distance, alienate, and deprive those who do not have their origins in the mongrel nation known as England. I call England a mongrel nation with justification, as anyone with even a tenuous grasp of English history will attest. But there has never been one single strand of culture identifiable as English or British. To suggest there is or ever has been is to admit total ignorance of Britain, England, and everything to do with them, and also to stand in the same rat-infested corner as these neo-Nazis and prop up their Big Lie.

England, like America, does not have "A" culture. Its has many cultures, and many mixtures of cultures. America is not called the melting pot because it absorbs and mixes all contributing cultures into a new synthesis called Americana. America clearly has not melted into one culture or one system all its peoples and their alien customs and cultures, and to suggest that it has is to deny what is in plain sight before everyone’s eyes.

what the illegals are trying to do is get us to dump out the brew and create a special concoction just for them. If we do that, we WILL lose the American culture.

That reminded me of something someone said some years back:

”The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate.”

I don’t know what that does to you but it chills my blood! If you are happy to have the mindset of the despicable Adolph Hitler to your mindset against illegal immigrants, then I wonder which “American Culture” you actually represent?

Hitler argued that Germans - he wrongly described them as the Aryan race - were superior to all other people on the face of the earth.

"Every manifestation of human culture, every product of art, science and technical skill, which we see before our eyes today, is almost exclusively the product of Aryan creative power."

Hitler believed that Aryan superiority was being threatened particularly by the Jewish race who, he argued, were lazy and had contributed little to world civilisation. To make this claim Hitler conveniently ignored the fact that some of his favourite composers and musicians were Jewish.

He claimed that the "Jewish youth lies in wait for hours on end satanically glaring at and spying on the unconscious girl whom he plans to seduce, adulterating her blood with the ultimate idea of bastardising the white race which they hate and thus lowering its cultural and political level so that the Jew might dominate."

According to Hitler, Jews were responsible for everything he did not like. Hitler also alleged that the Jews were responsible for Germany having lost the First World War. He claimed that Jews, who were about 1% of the population, were taking over the country by controlling the largest political party in Germany, the German Social Democrat Party, and by taking control of many of the leading companies and several of the country's newspapers. The fact that Jews had achieved prominent positions in a democratic society was, according to Hitler, an argument against democracy: "a hundred blockheads do not equal one man in wisdom."

Hitler’s answer to democracy was monolithic fascism. I will say at this juncture, chiefly for your benefit, but also because I like saying it, that I have no love at all for fascism, or for any form of politics or politician that approaches it, and that when I see or hear anyone anywhere promoting their political philosophy using the same tools - even the same words - that Hitler used to persecute, torture, maim, and murder millions of Jews, then I know beyond doubt that I am staring Nazism straight in the eyes!

Hitler’s motives do not, at this point, matter, but when someone has what can accurately be described as a parallel agenda to his to alienate, fault, castigate, and demand that one group MUST (Achtung!) become like another group or suffer the consequences, swastikas rise up before my eyes and bells ring.

Hitler also said:

The masses find it difficult to understand politics; their intelligence is small. Therefore all effective propaganda must be limited to a very few points. The masses will only remember only the simplest ideas repeated a thousand times over. If I approach the masses with reasoned arguments, they will not understand me. In the mass meeting, their reasoning power is paralysed. What I say is like an order given under hypnosis.

You state that the UK is a microcosm of many cultures that together create their own national identity separate from all others. That is horse feathers. As fine an example of arrant nonsense. The UK is not unicultural, it is multicultural, and there is a difference. The difference is the same difference as that between a ten by ten painting of a single colour – let us say it is brown.

If you mix all the colours on your palette you will end up with something that looks like a dark muddy brown. That is no the UK – that is your uninformed guess about something of which you are utterly ignorant. The UK is a mosaic – a picture created from discrete pieces of differing hues and shapes that in their wholeness are not mixed, but separate to create a beautiful picture.

Let me provide you with an example. Before coming to the USA six tears ago, I lived in Fartown, an Area of Huddersfield in Yorkshire. The industries of the area are traditionally major textiles, the world’s best worsted suiting fabrics, chemical works, and heavy engineering. For these reasons it was attractive to many emigrants from the Old Empire/New Commonwealth.

In the immediate post-war years, Great Britain hosted many Poles and other nationalities whose homelands had been freed from the grasp of one tyrant but were now in the grip of another, Stalin. Poles, Czechs, Romanian, and Balts, etc., went almost exclusively into the textile industry. There were some of the usual grumbles – “They take our jobs, our homes, our women, etc.,” but these are exactly the same charges that were levelled against the “Yankee” military stationed in GB during WW2. They were similar charges to the moaning Egyptians at their growing immigrant population. They undertook to make life damned hard for them, with what result you should already know.

The first wave of immigration of any size was from the West Indies. These people were mostly black and descendants of slaves. They took the jobs that were low-paid, had unsociable hours, and required little in the way of formal education. These were the jobs that had been filled by many of the Irish immigrants who hopped on the ferry in Dublin and landed at Liverpool to, initially, dig the navigation canals, do roadworks, build railways, etc., but as the need for these had diminished had spread into the country and taken a variety of jabs, mostly as labourers in the building and chemical industries. Many Irish worked on public transport as drivers or conductors. West Indians soon replaced them on the busses, and also in many of the building labourer’s jobs.

Many of the immigrants from the New Commonwealth had exceptional qualifications, but found no openings for their skills unless they were medical doctors (my general practitioner in UK is an Indian), so they worked on the buses and in textiles. Few of them went as day labourers.

I should also mention that in the Huddersfield area – and in other places - towards the end of the War and for some time afterwards, German and Italian prisoners of war were accommodated. Many of these did not wish to be repatriated at the cessation of hostilities. Some stayed, married local girls, and established businesses. Germans went into manufacturing of one sort or another, and the Italians set up ice cream factories.

That’s a little background, so back to my former home. It was a street of duplexes – semi-detached owner-occupier homes. The first house to me left was an Indian family, a Sikh married to a Hindu. Beyond them was a Pakistani Muslim family. Next was a West Indian family. Then a Polish man married to an English woman. To my left was a West Indian man. Beyond him was an Irish widow lady, beyond them was an English couple.

Immediately across the road was an English girl married to a Turk. To their left was a Sikh family. To their left was a Hindu family. To their left was an Irish-English family.

To the right of the Turk and his wife lived a West Indian lady and her English husband. To their right lived an Estonian couple, and to their right was an English family.

Do you think that we shared a common culture? Of course we did not. Each of us enjoyed their own culture, customs, language, food, dress, religion, etc., in a Free Land! The BNP (Nazis) frequently tried to stir up trouble, but the British are well known for resisting nazism (except for a few that were dropped on their heads in infancy) and the BNP gets derisory returns in local and national elections. They did get a seat on a council in the midlands by playing the race card, but they are seen for what they are, and what they are is not nice.

The UK is not the monolithic culture that you falsely represent it to be. I lived there for more than sixty-five years and I know it rather well.

Your next leap of phantasy is your declaration:

A Yorkshire man like you wouldn't change that national identity for anything, would you?
I wouldn’t change the many discrete cultures that live quite happily side-by-side in the UK for your Hitlerite model of a muddy but pathologically conforming society. You ought to know that I value my Yorkshire identity above my English or UK identity. As to being European, no decent person in the UK will admit that. Even Yorkshire folk know that not all Yorkshire culture is the same. We are nowhere near daft enough to think it is. William Duc de Normandie was surprised, then incensed, at the stout individuality of the rugged Yorkshire people. In more than a thousand years, that rugged individuality has not changed, and no one but a blockhead would expect all Yorkshiremen to look, speak, act, dress, or vote the same on any issue. In short, Yorkshire men are FREE and are just as diverse in culture as are any free people.

How else is it that I can speak my beloved broad Yorkshire Dialect (that only Yorkshire folk can understand) if I lived in your vision of a UK melted-down society where we all speak as the Queen speaks and crook our little fingers when we sip tea from bone china cups? I can persist to speak my native tongue without recrimination from the treat of the country because we are a TOLERANT and ACCEPTING people. It is a great pity that those of you who oppose certain cultures and perceive them as threats to your imaginary American Culture and Way Of Life didn’t melt a little of those human and Godly qualities in your melting-pot.

I will add that I do not like the KKK even more than they do not like Jews, Catholics, and blacks. The KKK is what you end up with if you see your American Culture as under attack from ‘outsiders’ – auslanders – and you cannot get a knife blade between Hitler and the KKK!

If Indian immigrants to the UK demanded that you start printing documents and signs in Hindi

Again, Elliott, your darkness surfaces. Local government and national government forms are written in English, Hindi, Gujerati, and Urdu to accommodate our citizens. So far there has been no clamour from the Asian-ethnicity for signs to be in Asian languages, although some institutions that cater for a mixed ethnic clientele do post in several languages. This is called being smart!

demanded that you start singing God Save the Queen in Hindi at rugby, football or cricket matches

LOL – Elliott, listen hard! No one sings the National Anthem at sports meetings. It is sometimes played at the end of a theatre presentation, but no one sings it! Are you sure you know where the UK is and how we live? Your ground of knowledge gets shakier and shakier.


and demanded that you provide them with free services like medical and educational services,

LOL - In the UK, no one has to DEMAND medical services or education. They are established by law and everyone who needs medical attention, doctor visits, hospital in-patient treatment get them for no cost at the point of delivery. Contrast that system with the millions of Americans who cannot afford to get medical treatment or prescription drugs.

Old people, veterans, and sick children do not have to go without prescription medicines or medical treatments because they are too poor. They are covered. No one asks for an insurance card, no one asks about your ethnicity, religion, or politics. You go in – you get treated – you get no bill!

but refused to obey the laws, including your laws for entering the country in the first place,

Some people do enter or stay in the country illegally, but I am not concerned with them as long as they are not criminally active. If they are, then I make no distinction between homegrown criminals or foreign criminals. There are worse crimes than illegal entry.

wouldn't you take issue with it?

God has blessed me with a heart that does not seek to control the universe, everyone in it, and the national anthem, for which I say hallel gadol!

Because that is what is happening here.

You ought to know that not all illegal entrants into the US are active criminals. If you don’t know it then you should know it. Many of them make positive contributions to your life by providing goods and services that you have come to rely on.

If you ever make it across the sea to England, you will experience a culture shock for which nothing can prepare you. England is not America writ small, but a different place altogether. England contains without combining many different behavioural customs and practices, depending where you are and where you are there, and with whom you spend time. There is no single set of rules, as you believe there is, to be slavishly followed by everyone. Britons never, never, never shall be slaves!

Educated person everywhere knows how damaging stereotypes such as you seek to impose really are and that a large variety of humans and human behaviours exist in any population category. While it is true that some behaviours appear with sufficient regularity to be labelled national characteristics, but many of us will exhibit none of them, and some perhaps one or two. The British, unlike Americans, tend to be polite. Our politeness has a ritualised predictability and an expected formality, but we bend when in the presence of American folksy and breezy informality in manners. That is tolerance. In The UK, ‘please’ and ‘thank you’ are involved in almost every human transaction as normal necessary and expected parts of the sentences involved. Americans appear brusque and demanding in their human transactions when compared with their UK cousins. It’s a cultural thing.

People in the north of England – Yorkshire – tend to be less formal than their southern counterparts.

Language is a cultural characteristic, and the variety of accents and dialects in England and the rest of the UK are such that there is no common meeting ground. It was held at one time that Oxford English was ‘proper’ English, but that elitist idea has been thrown to the wolves, and a guttural northern accent is now accepted as the equal of any other accent or dialect of the hundreds spoken in the British Isles, including the Queen’s English.

The UK still has a class system, such as elitists in the US are trying to imitate. What the English do like about America is the openness and freeness, but when those qualities are absent, the alarm bells ring to warn of imminent danger from dangerous and divisive ideologies.

One resolute conviction of the British is the belief that in spite of all our differences and discrete cultural threads, we belong to the most civilised society on earth and individually we are the best examples of what human beings are supposed to be. As one American wrote, ”If it were not for the weather, England would be the best place on earth to live because the people are the nicest one can find.”

The class issue is still divisive to an extent in the UK of today. Feelings about it are pervasive, insidious, and frequently charged with powerful emotions, in the same way that racial issues inflame Americans. However, their expressions are usually subtly delivered by oblique inference. There is not similarity of culture between the various – say six or seven – strands of UK society. Each has their own places and favourites, and even within these classes, sharp divisions are evident.

A lower class Englishman will comfortably wear his hat indoors, eat cheese from his knife, and drink tea from his saucer. A middle class Englishman would rather die than do any of these. Class to a great extent determines how people dress, what newspapers they read, the jobs they do, the education they have, who they marry, where they spend their leisure time, what clubs they belong to, where they live, the kind of car they have, and what TV programmes they watch. The whole tranch of one person’s choices is his culture, and many and varied they are.

Do British nazis who DEMAND (there’s DEMAND!) that foreign-born immigrants adopt The British Way of Life really want them to follow their example? Imagine, if you will, an England where everyone has their head shaved, wearing camouflage or leather jackets, big brown Doc Martin’s boots, and an almost pathological inability to articulate their native tongue! Is that what you want for America? If you insist on one uniform for all Americans – just so that you can see where the baddies are – will it be the white sheet and hood, the camouflage suit of the Montana Militia, or the paramilitary uniform of the Oregon White Supremacists?

America is a melting pot in which many people have not melted. You will have heard the clamour from the Christian right wing conservative that “America is a Christian nation!” Yet you have not converted! The KKK insists that “America is a White Nation,” and they are defending White Culture. Yet it is not illegal – with the exception of Chicago PD – to be black. Where’s the melting in the melting pot?

It looks as if all the melting has to be done by those people who are not you and who are most different from you. That’s not a melting pot. That’s a plain simple old crock. Britain has been the true melting pot, but even in the favoured isles not all former national characteristics and articles of identity have been subsumed into the whole. There has been some synthesis, but it is far from universal and it is not complete.

We are what we are today because of our history of being a staging place for people on the move. Celts, Britons, Roman, Spanish, Silesians, Nordlanders, Vikings, Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Normans, and perhaps a hundred other national and racial groups have made their home here over a span exceeding two thousand years. We have never set out to forge a national identity or to describe a national character. We let the forces of nature and history take their courses, and have left room for national, regional, local, and individual differences without any effort (Nazis excepted) to force them into the Procrustean bed of “Dominant Kultus.”

We do not all speak the same language, and those who do do not all speak the same version of it. We do not all have the same religion, or the same political ideal. But the one thing we do have in common (Nazis excepted) is the willingness to let others live as they please in the greatest democracy the world has ever known.

That is a free land, and, as you can now see, it bears no resemblance in spirit, intent, or fact to the UK of your imagination. I have not only lived among its diversity, but I loved it. I have bathed in its freedoms, and I have struggled to make life better for underdogs and the social outcasts. I do not care what language a person speaks. That he is human tells me that he is a child of God subject to being well treated in accordance with the injunction from ha-shem:

”[…] the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which [are] within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.”

“[…] and judge righteously between [every] man and his brother, and the stranger [that is] with him.”

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 05/03/06 7:12 pm:
Ronnie,

Why did you bold the entire post? Bold should be used to highlight specific points, not yell louder. But suit yourself.

First of all:

>>>National’ as in ‘Nazi’ if you get my drift<<<

Naziism was National SOCIALISM, not simple nationalism. In other words, your political beliefs are closer to Naziism than mine are, so I suggest that you not go there. The fact that I see American culture as something worth preserving is NOT racism. In fact, I welcome legal immigrants for what they can do to enhance our culture, and for what we can learn from them and benefit from them. But I do not want to scrap what we have to please a bunch of illegal aliens who refuse to even follow the laws of how to join us.

>>>”The Jew hates the white race and wants to lower its cultural level so that the Jews might dominate.” <<<

There are huge differences.

1) Jews were NOT trying to change German culture. They were, in fact, trying to be more German than the Germans. In fact, that is the reason that the Reform Judaism movement was started (a topic for another day). So Hitler was just simply lying, and the Germans believed the lies. Here there is ample evidence that the Mexicans ARE trying to change us. The spanish National Anthem is one example. Demanding bilingual education in the public schools system is another. Getting government agencies to conduct business bilingually is another. German Jews were killing themselves to become more Germ,an, but the Mexicans are trying to get America to be more Mexican.

2) The German Jews never tried to dominate any society at any point in their history. There is nothing to show that that is what they were trying to do in Germany. The Mexican government, however, has stated for the record that they are sending their people here in the hopes that they will gain votes in the USA in order to retake Aztlan. That is Mexican policy, whether the illegals know or support it or not. Vincente Fox has actually created pamphlets that are given to his citizens that tell them how to cross the border illegally, how to avoid INS, how to get medical and educational services, and how to have babies in the USA that will be citizens so that they can stay here permanently. This is Mexico's actual policy, not some lie made up by a dictator with nothing to back it up.

See this:
http://www.theamericanresistance.com/pics_art/brochure_guia_del_migrante_mexicano.pdf


And this:
http://www.americanpatrol.com/AID_ABET/MEXICO/MexiBookTranslation.html

There is not one single bit of advice in this guide published by the Mexican government about how to enter the USA legally. It is a guide to how to cross the border ILLEGALLY. It shows the true face of the Mexican government, and its intent to export the workers it can't support by any means necessary.

3) Nobody is talking about genocide of Mexican illegals. We're talking about deportation under the law. There's a big difference between deportation and loading them into cattle cars, taking them to death camps and gassing, burning, starving and working them to death by the millions.

>>>The masses find it difficult to understand politics; their intelligence is small.<<<

In your case he is right. You can't tell the difference between protesting against illegal immigration and racism.

>>>we are a TOLERANT and ACCEPTING people.<<<

So are we, as long as people follow the laws. But why should we tolerate law-breaking? And why should we change ourselves to accomodate law breakers.

>>>No one sings the National Anthem at sports meetings.<<<

Maybe that's the problem. We DO sing it, and we are proud of it. It's a national tradition to sing the national anthem at official gatherings and sporting events. Your fellow citizens just don't think its important. We do.

>>>There are worse crimes than illegal entry. <<<

Absolutely, and we should be preventing hem too. But prevention of worse crimes shouldn't preclude preventing THIS crime.

>>>You ought to know that not all illegal entrants into the US are active criminals.<<<

Yes they are. They are ACTIVELY BREAKING THE LAW by being here illegally. They may not be breaking any other laws, but they are actively breaking that one. And if they are working, they are breaking a second law. If they created a ficticious tax ID number and drivers license in order to get a job, they are breaking additional laws. If they claim to be citizens when they are not, they are again breaking laws. In other words, though they may not be violent criminals, they are still active criminals who are actively breaking the law.

>>>Many of them make positive contributions to your life by providing goods and services that you have come to rely on.<<<

Yeah, and Hitler made the railroads run on time. And the Son of Sam loved his mother. That doesn't make them good people. The fact that people who are here illegally might in a very few cases contribute more than they take doesn't make the fact that they are here illegally any less of a crime.

And I question whether the illegal immigrants actually do contribute more than they receive. According to the Center for Immigration Studies, households headed by illegal aliens imposed more than $26.3 billion in costs on the federal government in 2002 and paid only $16 billion in taxes, creating a net fiscal deficit of almost $10.4 billion, or $2,700 per illegal household in 2002. Among the largest costs are Medicaid ($2.5 billion); treatment for the uninsured ($2.2 billion); food assistance programs such as food stamps, WIC, and free school lunches ($1.9 billion); the federal prison and court systems ($1.6 billion); and federal aid to schools ($1.4 billion).

>>>America is a Christian nation!<<<

Actually, what they have said is that America is a RELIGIOUS and G-D FEARING nation that should not attempt to illegalize G-d or religious displays in public.

>>>”[…] the stranger, and the fatherless, and the widow, which [are] within thy gates, shall come, and shall eat and be satisfied; that the LORD thy God may bless thee in all the work of thine hand which thou doest.”<<<

Let's counter that with this:

Leviticus 19:9 When you reap your land's harvest, do not completely harvest the ends of your fields. [Also] do not pick up individual stalks [that have fallen].
19:10 [Furthermore,] do not pick the incompletely formed grape clusters in your vineyards. [Also] do not pick up individual [fallen grapes] in your vineyards. [All the above] must be left for the poor and the stranger. I am God your Lord.
19:11 Do not steal.

The Torah deliniates quite clearly what the Foreigner, Widow and Orphan are allowed to take. But if they take more than that, it is stealing... which is why the prohibition against stealing follows so closely the instructions for supporting the foreigner, widow and orphan.

Illegal is illegal. Those who follow the Law are welcome whether they are born here or naturalized citizens or legal immigrants. But those who break the law by coming here illegally, or by taking what is not meant for them, cannot use their status as a poor person as an excuse for breaking the Law. The Torah makes that clear.

Elliot