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US Ambassador says Iraq could still descend into civil war. Disturbing events reported.	Erewhon	03/09/06
By Lutfi Abu Oun - Wed Mar 8, 4:45 PM ET The bodies of 18 men, bound, blindfolded and strangled, were found in a Sunni Arab district of Baghdad, apparent victims of sectarian turmoil gripping Iraq and threatening the formation of a coalition government. Iraq's Shi'ite interior minister, a hate figure for many Sunnis who accuse him of condoning death squads, escaped an apparent assassination attempt when a roadside bomb blasted his convoy. Minister Bayan Jabor, however, was not in his car. In its annual report on human rights abuses worldwide, the U.S. State Department said reports increased in 2005 of killings by the U.S.-backed Iraqi government or its agents and members of sectarian militias dominated many police units. "Police abuses included threats, intimidation, beatings, and suspension by the arms or legs, as well as the reported use of electric drills and cords and the application of electric shocks," the State Department said of Iraqi human rights three years after U.S. troops invaded to overthrow Saddam Hussein. About 50 Iraqi private security guards were seized at their compound by men in police uniform on Wednesday -- but Interior Ministry officials said they were unaware of any formal arrests. The bombing of an important Shi'ite shrine in Samarra on February 22 has pitched Iraq toward civil war, unleashing reprisal sectarian killings and deepening the mutual suspicion between the country's majority Shi'ite Muslims and minority Sunnis. The violence has complicated faltering efforts to form a government of national unity three months after elections. Iraqi leaders, struggling to agree on who should hold the top posts, are due to meet President Jalal Talabani on Thursday to decide on a way forward. Parliament is supposed to meet by Sunday. The dumping of bodies bearing signs of torture and killed execution-style is a feature of the violence. The 18 bodies discovered by U.S. troops in western Baghdad late on Tuesday had all been garroted and had their hands bound with plastic ties, police and hospital officials said. The victims, a mixture of middle-aged and young men in civilian clothes, carried no identifying papers, police said. A policeman at the Yarmuk hospital morgue pointed to their clothing and long hair as an indication some may have been religious extremists linked to al Qaeda. Reuters reporters who saw the bodies said many appeared to be Iraqis. Police sources said only one had so far been identified by a relative. He was a guard at an oil refinery in southern Baghdad. The policeman at the hospital said many of the bloodied bodies appeared to have been beaten while some had small burn marks, suggesting they were tortured before being killed. Senior officials, aware of the potential for sectarian anger if it becomes clear all are either Sunni or Shi'ite Muslims, made no formal comment on the religious identities of the dead. Iraqi police said the bodies were dumped near the Amriya district, a stronghold of Sunni insurgent groups. MINISTER'S CONVOY ATTACKED Sunnis have accused the Shi'ite-led government's police and other security forces of abducting and killing Sunni civilians -- an accusation Interior Minister Jabor and the police deny. Interior Ministry vehicles normally used to transport Jabor and his aides were attacked as they left the ministry on Wednesday. A roadside bomb destroyed one car in the convoy, killing two and wounding five, a police source told Reuters. It follows the assassination of the top Iraqi general in Baghdad, a Sunni, by a sniper in the capital on Monday. The U.S. commander in Iraq, General George Casey, described Major General Mubdar Hatim al-Dulaimi at his funeral as "a courageous soldier, a passionate leader and an Iraqi hero." More than 500 people have been killed since the Samarra bombings, according to the most conservative official figures. Despite the daily bombings and shootings there is a relative lull in the violence and officials have said the immediate crisis seems to be over -- for the time being at least. But the U.S. ambassador conceded on Tuesday Iraq could still descend into civil war, saying Americans "opened Pandora's Box" when they toppled Saddam in 2003 and another incident like that in Samarra could push it to the brink of war again. Eight people, including four policemen were killed in bombings in Baghdad and the western town of Falluja on Wednesday. The bodies of two people were found bound and blindfold and shot dead in eastern Baghdad, police said. In political negotiations, Sunni and Kurdish parties refuse to accept Shi'ite Prime Minister Ibrahim al-Jaafari should stay on. His critics say he has failed to bring security or prosperity during the year in which he has been interim prime minister. (Additional reporting by Faris al-Mehdawi, Mariam Karouny and Aseel Kami) === What can/should the US do to avert civil war in Iraq?
Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 03/09/06 3:22 pm: Ronnie, 1) Don't pull the troops out. 2) Find and capture or kill the terrorists. 3) Support the new Iraqi government 4) Help rebuild the Iraqi infrastructure. 5) Help train the Iraqi military and police to the highest possible standards, both with regards to their policing and military functions ans with regard to treatment of prisoners. 6) Act as a unifying and calming force between the various factions. 7) Don't pull the troops out. (That one bears repeating. In other words, keep doing what we are doing. The rest is up to the Iraqis themselves. Elliot Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 03/09/06 4:52 pm: Excon, >>>The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting a different result.<<< Why would I want a different result? If things are improving, as I believe they are, and as the eye-witness accounts seem to bear out, then I am getting the result that I want. Why would I want to change it? Insanity is also giving up something that you know works for something that you know doesn't. Or if you prefer "If it ain't broke, don't fix it." Elliot Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 03/09/06 5:56 pm: I think it would be best for Iraq if al-Jaafari would resign right now. He has brought nothing to the table . Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 03/09/06 6:02 pm: just for clarity and to show how one sided the report you cited is ;There is more to what Ambassador Zalmay Khalilzad said .He also said the �The U.S. vision for a broad-based government reflects the aspirations of the Iraqi people� and described the �day-to-day political jousting as healthy. This is a much better way than with guns.� And he noted that �Once a national unity government is formed, the effort to provoke a civil war will face a huge obstacle.� Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 03/09/06 6:36 pm: ex, I agree with Powell. I just wonder if the media will ever accept any responsibility for fueling the flames as well. Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 03/09/06 8:02 pm: Ronnie, When Bush put them in they were gung-ho patriots riding with the troops and reporting the action. After Baghdad fell the rest of the media moved in for the kill - kill Bush that is. It's obvious to anyone with a functional brain that the MSM WANTS Bush to fail in Iraq, and they don't care at what cost. Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 03/10/06 5:13 am: Steve, The frightening thing is that you sound as though you really believe that! ! Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 03/10/06 2:24 pm: Ronnie, what is their to doubt about it? It's not merely obvious it's glaringly obvious. Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 03/10/06 5:10 pm: Ronnie, not that it will matter since facts are such an inconvenient thing to Bush critics, but I invite you to read this article that tom referred me to that demonstrates my point. It isn't just the MSM that wants Bush to fail in Iraq, it's a good portion of congress, too. Clarification/Follow-up by Erewhon on 03/10/06 5:47 pm: Why do MSM want Bush to fail in Iraq? Can you be very specific why they would want to shed even more blood than has already been shed? I don;t buy it. Bush is failing without any outside help! Reporting that failure isn't the same as wanting him to fail. Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 03/10/06 6:04 pm: Ronnie, did you read the article? Do you not wonder why Bush let's all this crap he takes roll right off his back (and it has nothing to do with arrogance)? Have you not pondered the possibility that perhaps Bush is more ethical, more Christian-like, has more character than he's given credit for, simply for the fact that he doesn't retaliate against his critics, doesn't use the same vitriole spewed by the left to try and clear his name? Who can say he hasn't made mistakes? Nobody. But I can say without a doubt in my mind that the political free-for-all atmosphere in this country is not a result of Bush's failures but the left's failure to act within reason. Their incessant whining, declaring everything Bush does as scandalous, illegal, immoral, unethical, dishonest, illegitimate, insufficient, bumbling, incompetent and any other negative designation you can come up without regard to the facts - and the relentless pounding he takes in the press - is evidence enough they are out for his blood. If you can't see that it can only be because you sympathize - again without regard to the facts. Why? Power. The left is generally NOT interested in the welfare and security of ALL Americans, it is only interested in power. That's the only way they can shove their agenda down our throats, which is why all the fear-mongering over conservative judges. Liberals feign tolerance, they are only tolerant so far as it goes along with their worldview and agenda, and conservative judges interfere with that agenda. What has the left offered us as solutions in the past 5 years? Anything on any issue? And I mean other than pulling out of Iraq and abandoning the Iraqis that DO want this to work, leaving them to the "insurgents." Is that how we prevent even more bloodshed? Why else would the former president and vice president go into the heart of Arab country and bad mouth the current president instead of say, encouraging our troops? Why else would a Sen. Rockefeller, the chairman of the Senate Select Committee on Intelligence at the time go to Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Syria to give them a heads up, to give Iraq the opportunity to move those WMD's that EVERYONE knew they had? Weapons which, by the way, have not been accounted for. Open your eyes Ronnie, it's gone far beyond reporting failures, it's manipulation - and it's obvious. Steve

Summary of Answers Received	Answered On	Answered By	Average Rating
1. Ronnie, 1) Don't pull the troops out. 2) Find and captur...	03/09/06	ETWolverine
2. Ronnie, What can/should the US do to avert civil war in Ira...	03/09/06	Itsdb
3. Hi, Iraqi Gov't leaders, and religious leaders, already k...	03/09/06	fredg
4. a Full civil war certainly is not in the Sunni interest .At ...	03/09/06	tomder55
5. There is little more that we could do now to prevent a civil...	03/09/06	drgade
6. you want a solution withdraw the troops, the Iraqi will qui...	03/10/06	Mathatmacoat

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