Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/21/05 9:24 am:
I'm not quite sure what the topic is.
But there are a number of things I disagree with Bush on. His feelings on stem-cell research, for one. His open-borders policy with Mexico, for another. I disliked his steel import tax as well (thankfully he corrected that error). And there are a few other odds and ends where I disagree with him. That doesn't make me either a traitor or disloyal to Bush. It just means that despite my agreement with most of his policies, we have points of disagreement. There's nothing wrong with that.
I disagreed with and disliked a majority of what Clinton did in office. My disagreements with him indicated neither disloyalty nor treason, just disagreement.
Is there are specific point you were trying to get at? Or was this a general question about disagreeing with the President?
Elliot
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/21/05 10:03 am:
Hi El:
I'll bring you up to date. Last week, Congressman Murtha was "reprehensible", and “adopted the policies of Michael Moor”.
This week, Bush says he's a "fine man... engaged in an honest and open debate about the way forward in Iraq".
What happened to "weakening of the troops ability to fight"? (Didn't you say that?) What happened to "disloyal"? None of that was true?
Anyone, especially any president, who can turn on a dime like that, is in the very first instance a snake.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 11/21/05 10:13 am:
I think it has something to do with the Friday debate in the House of Reps. One of the Republicans questioned Rep. Murtha's patriotism .Bush today said that he considers Murtha a patriot who is just wrong about his position on Iraq .
The real distortion of course is with the press portrayal of Murtha being a hawk who suddenly reversed his position on Iraq. That was the implication of the headlines but in reality Murtha has made anti-Iraq policy statements for some time now.He spoke about the war with skepticism before the invasion (even though he voted for the war resolution)and continued to do so afterwards .
Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/21/05 10:56 am:
Excon,
I heard Bush's comments about Murtha from yesterday's press conference. Bush was right, Murtha is a patriot who happens to be wrong on this issue. In my opinion, Murtha's position is one that weakens the troops. But that doesn't mean he isn't a patriot. (I feel the same about several congressmen who disagree with Bush on Iraq, but who are still basically loyal Americans. There are a few, though, who really are disloyal, blame-America-first types. Murtha isn't one of them.)
I never heard Bush say that Murtha was reprehensible, disloyal, or a Michael Moore type. Others may have said that, but never Bush. I don't see the contradiction.
Elliot
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/21/05 11:10 am:
Hello again, El:
Nope, ain't gonna happen, no siree. There's no backing away from this hypocrisy.
McClelland said those words. Ipso facto: those were Bush's words. No?
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/21/05 3:58 pm:
No, they were McClelland's words. Bush's words were Bush's words.
Elliot
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/21/05 5:50 pm:
Hello El:
You're WRONG. McClellands words ARE Bush's words. I don't think you understand how that works.
Unless you do, and it's fine that the press secretary speaks for himself and not the White House. Who the fck cares what McClelland thinks????
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/21/05 5:50 pm:
Hello El:
I'm sorry. I have to respond again. You really think that all those White House reporters just can't wait to hear what Scott McClelland thinks. Really!
You don't even believe your crap.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/22/05 8:21 am:
Excon,
Did he say "The President feels..." or "The White House says..."? No. He wasn't speaking for anyone other than himself. And since McClelland is a member of the administration, his personal opinions ARE important, and are considered news. But they are NOT Bush's words until he states that he's speaking as Bush's voice.
Sorry, but trying to tie Bush up with someone else's words... Didn't you tell me last week to stop putting other people's arguments in your name?
Elliot
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/22/05 9:07 am:
Sorry El,
You don't understand the workings of the White House. When the White House Press Secretary takes that podium, he is speaking for the president. His words are carefully chosen by others - NOT HIM. He is an underling. Nobody cares what HE thinks.
When you can't defend your jerk from the charges I made, you retreat into the familiar den of the scoundrel - DENIAL. Well, it ain't working with me, Pal.
Try to take a lesson in civics.
excon
