Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/16/05 12:12 pm:
Ex,

What is wrong with believing that the laws that are on the books should be enforced? And if you have no intention of enforcing them, then get rid of them.

As I said, I have no idea whether internet gambling is bad, good or neutral. I have no idea whether the laws on the books are good or not. But I do believe that if there are laws against it, those laws should be enforced. Or else, the laws should be changed. Otherwise, it weakens the government and creates an environment where everyone gets to pick and choose which laws they will obey and which not. That's not freedom, that's chaos.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/16/05 1:09 pm:

El:

No problem with that. In a practical sense, these laws CAN'T be enforced, whether they SHOULD be or not. Therefore, I agree with your conclusion, they should be changed.

Where we would disagree (I assume), would be if the government decided to make an "example" of some citizen by throwing him in the slam for 40 years. Your response would be let him rot in jail. Mine would be to fight for him because he's the victim.

excon

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/16/05 1:27 pm:
Then we agree to disagree on that point.

Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 11/16/05 1:49 pm:
Elliot ;

I think your point about the validity of the games .How can you prove that you are playing with honest virtual dice or decks of cards ? Gamblers are at the mercy of those on-site operators who manipulate the odds or who falsely report game results. I just do not know how these laws will be enforceable .

Old laws designed to monitor sports betting has been ruled to not apply to internet gambling .Congress and States have tried to pass meaningful laws with little success in my view. To further complicate it ;the internet games are international .

Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/16/05 2:26 pm:


Hello whenitcomestovicebringonthegovernmenters:

Would seem that a conservative position would be to let the market decide. As you guys have already determined, given the international flavor of the internet, it just CAN'T be regulated. Whether governments like it or not, the free market is the ipso facto result. Frankly, that works just fine for me.

What? Does the conservative promise of smaller government escape you when it comes to matters of vice? Conservatives are, if anything, practical, at least they were before George Bush. So, who would want to open up a can of worms like that?

In answer to your direct concern, how would a gambler know if he was being cheated? Obviously, you're not gamblers. If you're any kind of player, and you never win at a site, don't go there again. But, if you win, and walk away with your money, if they're cheating, they're not doing a very good job.

Plus, the other side of the equation is what does an on-line casino have to gain by cheating? I suggest, too much. Right now, the very site that I happen to be playing on, has 43,071 playing at this time of day in the middle of the week. If one does the math (and I always do the math) one can see that with just 10% of their servers operating, they’re making around $10,000 per hour. Tonight they’ll be making close to $100 K every single hour, and ALL they have to do, is run a room full of servers, and hire a few customer service people.

Could they cheat? I spose they could? Would they get caught? In time, I think they would. Therefore, their reputation for running a clean game is worth literally billions. It's what I bank on. And if you think about it, that safety net, is nothing more or less than any gambler has in any casino anywhere on the planet, including all the brick and mortar ones. Or do you think the government is protecting gamblers?

Plus the fact that I regularly walk away with money.

excon

Clarification/Follow-up by powderpuff on 11/16/05 2:48 pm:

"having unenforced laws on the books creates an environment in which government isn't respected and wherein the people pick and choose which laws they obey."

Unenforced laws, lazy cops, corrupt legal systems..... hmm, reminds me of my hometown.

As for the gambling, I think its a personal problem. I don't use the internet to gamble and I don't even know how to buy a lottery ticket. I'm quite sure that none of my children ever used my home pc for internet gambling either.

It has been a while, but I have had a few good card games in my home that involved betting with cash. I guess that makes me a criminal. Do I care?

NO, I don't.

I have lost what respect I had for law enforcement and things like this don't help. My lack of respect could turn into out right contempt.

ex, are you saying that those computer slot machines they have inside private clubs are illegal?

Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/16/05 3:30 pm:

Hello sissy:

Could turn into contempt??? Mine did, and it’s only getting worse.

When I was a kid, the only organized gambling happened in Las Vegas or was run by the mob. We were told that playing the numbers (a lottery), which only the mob ran, was a very bad thing to do. It's unpatriotic, and contributes to organized crime, the delinquency of minors, drugs and prostitution. You know, all that crap they say whenever they want to shut something down.

But, now the states have recognized that gambing is a moneymaker, so the state now runs the numbers racket, and it's just wonderful if you play.

They make me sick.

Are those machines you’re talking about legal? I dunno. Call a vice cop.

excon

Clarification/Follow-up by powderpuff on 11/16/05 3:59 pm:


:)