Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 11/01/05 1:05 pm:
Excon<

>>>The fact remains that officials close to both Cheney and Bush leaked the identity of an undercover CIA operative for political reasons.<<<

And what would those reasons be?

>>>The leak came from the White House. Of that, there is no doubt,<<<

Apparently there is some doubt, because despite 2 years of investigations, Fitzgerald couldn't find anyone to pin it on. Libby wasn't charged with revealing national secrets or revealing a covert operative. Neither was Rove or anyone else in the White House. So other than Joe Wilson's claim that it came from the White House, and the Libs who are parroting him, do you actually have any proof that it did?

>>>Whether or not that act was illegal, or whether or not you’ll ever admit that Rove did it,<<<

Ah... but those are the key points. I can't be an apologist for or excuse something that never happened, for a crime that was never committed, or for actions not taken by a person. We don't know that it even happened, despite 2 years of investigation by a guy who was looking to screw the White House.

The fact is that there has been no partisan use by the White House of information regarding Plame. Nobody from the White House has attacked either Plame or Wilson. In fact, I've never heard Bush, Cheney or Rove ever mention Wilson's or Plame's names except in answer to a direct question. The only attacking has come from Wilson's mouth.

Let's also look at some of the facts about Wilson himself, shall we? (I'm not in the White House, I can attack the guy all I want.)

Lie #1: Wilson claimed that he was sent to Niger by the office of the Vice President. That turned out to be untrue. Cheney had never heard of any mission to Niger. And if he had, he wouldn't have sent Wilson, who had no experience in Niger and didn't even speak the same dialect of French that is spoken in Niger.

Lie #2: He claimed that his investigation and report on Niger PROVED that Saddam had not attempted to purchase yellowcake uranium from Niger. The Senate Select Intelligence Committee issued a bipartisan opinion that Wilson's report, if anything, actually supports the argument that Saddam was trying to purchase nuclear material from Niger.

Lie #3: Wilson said that his investigation led him to the conclusion that Niger's intelligence (copies of documents between Niger and Saddam) was based on forged documents that "because the names were wrong and the dates were wrong". The only problem is that he had never seen the documents in question, because they weren't in US hands until 8 months AFTER he made his trip to Niger. Only then did the CIA have the documents. (Did his wife pass a copy of them to him illegally? Or was he just lying on his own account?)

Lie #4: Wilson claimed that his wife had no connection to his being chosen to go to Niger. That has been proven pattently false as well, seeing as the day after she sent her memo recommending him, the trip was set up by the CIA.

Lie after lie after lie. And you still believe Wilson.

Novack and Cooper both said that Rove was not their source. Novack clearly said that Rove did not give him any indication that Plame was an undercover agent. Cooper said clearly that Rove told him not to get too far out on a limb in following the Wilson story... which puts a dent in the theory that Rove was "shopping the story around to anyone who would take it".

But why believe Rove, who has witnesses who testify that he had nothing to do with Plame being "outed", when you can believe Wilson who has been caught in lie after lie.

Sorry, excon. There's no story here. Rove didn't do anything wrong. Bush didn't do anything wrong. At worst, Libby forgot a detail, but also did nothing wrong except answer questions to the best of his ability and memory. And there's been no crime, because Plame wasn't an undercover agent.

There's nothing shameful about denying a crime that never happened.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 11/01/05 1:49 pm:

Hello again, El:

Spin, spin, spin!

Look, I know you're a right wing reactionery, but do you know that you're the only one left who doesn't think Rove is a leaker?

It's cool, El. Denial is a very comfortable place to live. Believe me, you have plenty of company.

excon

Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 11/01/05 2:15 pm:
was it Patriotic or not for Daniel Ellsburg to leak classified information to discredit the Penatgon . I bet you think it was patriotic.