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Posse Comitatus.................... CeeBee2 09/15/05
    tomder55 had responded to my leader question by saying:

    ...Imagine the perception of a Southern State being occupied by union troops again without State approval ? The law is clear on this . Bush would've had to invoke the Insurrection Act and the Posse Comitatus Act of 1878. If he makes the decision to go in without local acceptance, he's guilty of violating states rights...

    I say to tomder55, A Southern state wouldn't have been "occupied."

    The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878 says "we can't arrest you." It doesn't say "sorry, we can't save you." (quote on Nightline, 09/15/05)

    The Posse Comitatus Act of 1878

    20 Stat. L., 145
    June 18, 1878

    CHAP. 263 - An act making appropriations for the support of the Army for the fiscal year ending June thirtieth, eighteen hundred and seventy-nine, and for other purposes.

    SEC. 15. From and after the passage of this act it shall not be lawful to employ any part of the Army of the United States, as a posse comitatus, or otherwise, for the purpose of executing the laws, except in such cases and under such circumstances as such employment of said force may be expressly authorized by the Constitution or by act of Congress; and no money appropriated by this act shall be used to pay any of the expenses incurred in the employment of any troops in violation of this section And any person willfully violating the provisions of this section shall be deemed guilty of a misdemeanor and on conviction thereof shall be punished by fine not exceeding ten thousand dollars or imprisonment not exceeding two years or by both such fine and imprisonment.

    10 U.S.C. (United States Code) 375

    Sec. 375. Restriction on direct participation by military personnel:

    The Secretary of Defense shall prescribe such regulations as may be necessary to ensure that any activity (including the provision of any equipment or facility or the assignment or detail of any personnel) under this chapter does not include or permit direct participation by a member of the Army, Navy, Air Force, or Marine Corps in a search, seizure, arrest, or other similar activity unless participation in such activity by such member is otherwise authorized by law.

    18 U.S.C. 1385

    Sec. 1385. Use of Army and Air Force as posse comitatus

    Whoever, except in cases and under circumstances expressly authorized by the Constitution or Act of
    Congress, willfully uses any part of the Army or the Air Force as a posse comitatus or otherwise to
    execute the laws
    shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than two years, or both.

    Thus, President Bush should have immediately sent aid via the military into the Southern states ravaged by Katrina.

      Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 09/16/05 5:35 am:
      From Air Force Times

      and USA Today :


      Q: Can the restrictions against using federal troops for domestic enforcement be suspended in time of emergency?

      A: Two laws allow this.

      The president can invoke the Insurrection Act dating back to 1795, which permits the military use of federal troops on U.S. soil to put down violence that local authorities are incapable of handling.

      Under the National Defense Act of 1916, the president can federalize a state’s National Guard troops in an effort to centralize control over a chaotic situation. Bush suggested “federalizing” Louisiana’s Guard forces when the chaos in New Orleans began escalating, but Gov. Kathleen Blanco objected.

      Q: Have these measures been used before?

      A: Yes. The elder President George H.W. Bush federalized the National Guard in California to quell the 1992 riots in Los Angeles.

      In 1963, President Kennedy used the Alabama’s Guard to force desegregation at the University of Alabama at Tuscaloosa.

      In 1957, President Eisenhower used federal troops and the Arkansas National Guard to force the desegregation of Little Rock’s public schools.

      Q: Why change the laws restricting federal troops if there are fairly direct ways of circumventing them when the need arises?

      A: Invoking rarely used measures can be difficult, time-consuming and potentially controversial.

      In the case of Louisiana, a Republican president would be taking control from a Democratic governor. The Bush administration debated this and decided against it, according to reports about the dialogue between Washington and Baton Rouge.

      Automatic mechanisms that permit, or even obligate, a powerful federal military response to a major disaster could save time by eliminating politics and indecision.



      Until the rules are changed ,the federal government steps in when, and only when, assistance is requested by the governor of the respective state in need of assistance . And in the case of Louisiana, Democrat Governor Kathleen Blanco dropped the ball .

      Clarification/Follow-up by nikki6 on 09/17/05 10:31 pm:
      Excon, What, talking $&*# all the time but don't have a plan? Isn't that what politicians do? The way I see it, you are no better than they are.

      Clarification/Follow-up by jocase on 09/17/05 11:03 pm:
      Check out this article quoted below:

      Military May Play Bigger Relief Role Sep 17 2:59 PM US/Eastern
      By ROBERT BURNS
      AP Military Writer
      WASHINGTON
      President Bush's push to give the military a bigger role in responding to major disasters like Hurricane Katrina could lead to a loosening of legal limits on the use of federal troops on U.S. soil.
      Pentagon officials are reviewing that possibility, and some in Congress agree it needs to be considered.
      Bush did not define the wider role he envisions for the military. But in his speech to the nation from New Orleans on Thursday, he alluded to the unmatched ability of federal troops to provide supplies, equipment, communications, transportation and other assets the military lumps under the label of "logistics."
      The president called the military "the institution of our government most capable of massive logistical operations on a moment's notice."
      At question, however, is how far to push the military role, which by law may not include actions that can be defined as law enforcement _ stopping traffic, searching people, seizing property or making arrests. That prohibition is spelled out in the Posse Comitatus Act of enacted after the Civil War mainly to prevent federal troops from supervising elections in former Confederate states.
      Speaking on the Senate floor Thursday, Sen. John Warner, R-Va., chairman of the Armed Services Committee, said, "I believe the time has come that we reflect on the Posse Comitatus Act." He advocated giving the president and the secretary of defense "correct standby authorities" to manage disasters.
      Presidents have long been reluctant to deploy U.S. troops domestically, leery of the image of federal troops patrolling in their own country or of embarrassing state and local officials.
      The active-duty elements that Bush did send to Louisiana and Mississippi included some Army and Marine Corps helicopters and their crews, plus Navy ships. The main federal ground forces, led by troops of the 82nd Airborne Division from Fort Bragg, N.C., arrived late Saturday, five days after Katrina struck.
      They helped with evacuations and performed search-and-rescue missions in flooded portions of New Orleans but did not join in law enforcement operations.
      The federal troops were led by Lt. Gen. Russel Honore. The governors commanded their National Guard soldiers, sent from dozens of states.
      Defense Secretary Donald H. Rumsfeld is reviewing a wide range of possible changes in the way the military could be used in domestic emergencies, spokesman Lawrence Di Rita said Friday. He said these included possible changes in the relationship between federal and state military authorities.
      Under the existing relationship, a state's governor is chiefly responsible for disaster preparedness and response.
      Governors can request assistance from the Federal Emergency Management Agency. If federal armed forces are brought in to help, they do so in support of FEMA, through the U.S. Northern Command, which was established in 2002 as part of a military reorganization after the 9/11 attacks.
      Di Rita said Rumsfeld has not made recommendations to Bush, but among the issues he is examining is the viability of the Posse Comitatus Act. Di Rita called it one of the "very archaic laws" from a different era in U.S. history that limits the Pentagon's flexibility in responding to 21st century domestic crises.
      Another such law, Di Rita said, is the Civil War-era Insurrection Act, which Bush could have invoked to waive the law enforcement restrictions of the Posse Comitatus Act. That would have enabled him to use either National Guard soldiers or active-duty troops _ or both _ to quell the looting and other lawlessness that broke out in New Orleans.
      The Insurrection Act lets the president call troops into federal action inside the United States whenever "unlawful obstructions, combinations or assemblages _ or rebellion against the authority of the United States _ make it impracticable to enforce the laws" in any state.
      The political problem in Katrina was that Bush would have had to impose federal command over the wishes of two governors _ Kathleen Blanco of Louisiana and Haley Barbour of Mississippi _ who made it clear they wanted to retain state control.
      The last time the Insurrection Act was invoked was in 1992 when it was requested by California Gov. Pete Wilson after the outbreak of race riots in Los Angeles. President George H.W. Bush dispatched about 4,000 soldiers and Marines.
      Di Rita cautioned against expecting quick answers to tough questions like whether Congress should define when to trigger the president's authority to send federal troops to take charge of an emergency, regardless of whether a governor agreed.
      "Is there a way to define a threshold, or an anticipated threshold, above which a different set of relationships would kick in?" Di Rita asked. "That's a good question. It's only been two weeks, so don't expect us to have the answers. But those are the kinds of questions we need to be asking."

 
Summary of Answers Received Answered On Answered By Average Rating
1. humm... Interesting. The phrase "does not include or perm...
09/15/05 jocaseExcellent or Above Average Answer
2. The question of what the real meaning of the Posse Comitatu...
09/16/05 tomder55Excellent or Above Average Answer
3. Hi CeeBee: You asked about rules in another question. Thi...
09/16/05 exconExcellent or Above Average Answer
4. The governor of the state is the one who would not give the ...
09/18/05 drgadeExcellent or Above Average Answer
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