Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 10/27/04 10:47 am:
Excon,
I'll say it again.
The Patriot Act does NOT infringe upon your rights. It does NOT allow any government official to go into your house without a warrant. It only simplifies the process for getting a warrant. There is no infringement of rights caused by the Patriot Act, no matter what the hysterical left may claim. And saying it more times doesn't make it more true.
Elliot
Clarification/Follow-up by labman on 10/27/04 12:33 pm:
I do not apologize for my anger with those that can't accept the people's will as expressed by their ballots. We know that if massive fraud doesn't give Kerry the election, he will go on with any means possible.
Clarification/Follow-up by LTgolf on 10/27/04 1:27 pm:
Excon
I agree that Bush joining the NG did put another in his place in Nam, and that person could have been killed or maimed, however I think Kerry with his anti American attitude which bolstered the enemy moral may have caused many more deaths than one person going into the NG.
Also I personally think Kerrys wounds were self inflicted and superficial and his time in Nam was all about his future political career.
Sorry to have to disagree with you but to me Kerry was Hanoi John just as Fonda was Hanoi Jane.
PS :: rumor has it that I was the person that took Bushes place and I didnt get killed, or at least I dont think I did. :)
Leon
Clarification/Follow-up by powderpuff on 10/27/04 1:49 pm:
***** 5 stars for my brave soldier.
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/27/04 2:09 pm:
Hello:
You are all wrong. Go to right wing jail. (Except you, pp.)
I served in Viet Nam and supported the war after my return home. But I turned against it, and I'll tell you exactly when.
1968 during the Paris Peace Talks. The television reported how many of my brothers had been killed that day. Then they reported that the Paris Peace Talks had not gotten underway because they couldn't decide what the shape of the table they were going to sit at should be.
40, 50 of my brothers killed on the battlefield, and they were discussing the shape of the table. Something clicked – this was very wrong and there was no turning back in my mind after that point. My decision, and my anti-war activities may have shortened the war by some measure. I suggest that it may have saved lives, not endangered them.
Political dissent, whether about the war or anything else, is a very, very American thing to do. I rank it right up there in the patriotism scale.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 10/27/04 2:32 pm:
Excon,
You are clearly not a diplomat. If you were, you would understand that "disagreeing over the shape of the table" is diplomat-speak for saying that one side or the other doesn't really want to negotiate in good faith, but isn't in a political position to 'refuse to meet'. One side or the other didn't want peace... and considering the political climate of the times, I have a feeling that the side that didn't want to negotiate was NV not USA. If the USA was the side that was refusing to negotiate, they could have simply walked away. It's the plitically WEAKER body that usually argues the shape of the table. That would be NV.
So put your blame where it belongs... with the commies who refused to negotiate out of pure stubborness and spite. Stop perpetuating the historical falacy that it was all our fault.
Oh... and it was probably political dissent just like yours that gave the NV the courage to not negotiate in good faith, and which protracted the war. Just like Kerry's comments are doing now with the terrorists.
Elliot
Clarification/Follow-up by LTgolf on 10/27/04 4:53 pm:
Elliot
During those years I was also distressed about the table shape arguments, but as you so ellequently put it I finally understand what it was about after all these years. WOW.
Thank you
Leon
Clarification/Follow-up by excon on 10/27/04 5:41 pm:
Hello Elliot,
It is true, I am not a diplomat. But I do understand when one side is diddling the other, and my brothers are dying. Paint it all up pretty and call it international diplomacy if you want. Go ahead, furrow your brow and lecture me about the peace process that I obviously don't understand.
However, I do understand - more than you could possibly fathom. I see through all the bull shit - always have - always will.
The emperor doesn't have any duds on no matter what you say.
excon
Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 10/28/04 12:24 pm:
So tell me, Excon, who was diddling who?
That is the heart of the matter.
You blamed the USA for doing the "diddling". But does that hold up when examined factually?
Nope. Not hardly.
Elliot
