Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 10/14/04 7:42 am:
CeeBee,

A few facts which contradict your story:

RACE/ETHNICITY
American Indian or Alaska Native 2
Asian 3
Black or African American 23
Hispanic or Latino 23
Multiple races, pending, or unknown 2
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander 2
White 84
Total 139

Through April 30, 2003


RACE/ETHNICITY
American Indian or Alaska Native 10
Asian 19
Black or African American 109
Hispanic or Latino 106
Multiple races, pending, or unknown 10
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander 8
White 647
Total 909

May 2003 through Sept. 25, 2004

Totals

RACE/ETHNICITY
American Indian or Alaska Native 12
Asian 22
Black or African American 132
Hispanic or Latino 129
Multiple races, pending, or unknown 12
Native Hawaiian or Pacific Islander 10
White 731

Let's see how my math is. The total as of Sept. 25 is 1048. Of that:

731 whites, or 69.8%
132 blacks, or 12.6%
129 Hisp/Latino, or 12.3%
22 Asian, or 2%
12 Am Indian/Alaskan, or 1.1%
12 Multiple, etc, or 1.1%
10 Hawaiian/Pacific, or 1.1%

Additionally:

731 whites, or 69.8%
317 everyone else, or 30.2%

In my calculations, that makes it more than twice as risky to be white in Iraq than all other ethnicities combined. Only in Black America does that up to "Blacks have died at higher proportions than Whites in the conflict."

But hey, since when did facts ever get in the way of a liberal agenda?

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 10/14/04 10:08 am:
Steve when you figure out what the hell your point is let me know. When Kerry gives stats he reasonably associates them with the subject...so far I've notice you have a knack for taking things out of context. And there is nothing so wrong with being liberal...I'm liberal on some issues. I know the small minded Bush world rotates every so slowly, but there is more to it than being far right or far left.

Bobby

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 10/14/04 10:15 am:
PS. I don't know what happen to the Cowboys. Vegas made a lot money due to their ineptness. Personally I think it had something to do with Parcells not giving Rashard Lee more running opportunities...perhaps he is saving Lee to be traded soon.

Bobby

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 10/14/04 10:47 am:
Bobby,

The point is the Kerry campaign, and the anti-Bush crowd on the left have no scruples when it comes to defeating Bush. The ad by Media Fund is nothing more than doom and gloom trying to put fear into the minds of Blacks. The ad also disses conservative black groups and basically tells people not to believe what they say. You have Farenheit 9/11, Kerry making outrageous claims like the 'million blacks' thing, an event where former Rep. Carrie Meek warned "He's (Kerry) fighting against liars and demons," columnists and others preaching the 'horrors' of a second Bush term, ads comparing Bush to Hitler, book after book after book demeaning the president, and outrageous...not to mention incorrect, fearmongering stats about blacks being 'slaughtered' in Iraq, Kerry campaign workers calling people 'google monkeys', comedians and actors calling Bush everything but human, and saying we're idiots for voting for him. The Democrats apparently will stop at nothing to defeat Bush.

Frankly, I'm tired of being stereotyped by the left as a bigoted, right-wing, homophobic, war-mongerer who couldn't give a hoot about paraplegics, gays, poor people and minorities, yet that is what is dividing this country. I don't care if people are want to be liberals, I just think it's time they give other voices the respect they deserve, that they preach, and realize that their point of view is not the only valid point of view.

As for taking things out of context, I'm generally the one to put things into context, as in blowing the heck out of CeeBee's response with facts.

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by SanchoPanza on 10/15/04 2:36 am:
..."Bush is a rich man in the White House who is sending black men and women to be slaughtered in Iraq while Cheney and Halliburton boys get rich on oil. Don't keep getting played." ... and YOU twistewd this into MORE moniorities are being killed than whites. YOU are the bullsh*tter.
The statment above simply says that blacks are being killed in Iraq (True you just posted the figures) for the benefit of Bush's administration. The inferrence is that Bush is interested in lining his own pockets and those of his cronies and is doing little to help minorities rather than Bush is sending black people to Iraq to be killed in disproportionate numbers.
Far too often people here post news stories and then either use the story as a direct quote from the person the story is about or attatch their own veiwpoint to the person the story is about and then attack them like a sophamoric law student, trying to establish an obscure point.
It's tiresome, it's bordering on spam and it's killing reasonable conversation.

Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 10/15/04 8:14 am:
statistics need to be perused and challenged if they appear out of context or outright distortions .

The fact remains that an investigation into the 2000 vote was conducted by the U.S. Commission on Civil Rights .They issued a report that found no evidence of voter intimidation, no evidence of voter harassment, and no evidence of intentional or systematic disenfranchisement of black voters.The Justice Department's Civil Rights Division conducted a separate investigation of these charges and also came up empty.Further ;in 24 of the 25 Counties that were challenged there was a DEMOCRAT commissioner of elections .

Now as to the charge that we are sending blacks to fight and die in Iraq ;well that is another distortion .Do the math from Ceebee's reply :

“Seventy nine of the 550 combat dead, and the toll climbs daily, have been Black soldiers.” ( 79/550=.1436 or 14.36% )The U.S. census 2000 says that the black population of the U.S. was 12.3% of the total population . Sounds like the casualty rate for blacks in the service in Iraq more or less is in line with the percentage of the population and certainly comparable to the stats that Steve presented .

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 10/16/04 9:55 am:
Steve-

**as for taking things out of context, I'm generally the one to put things into context, as in blowing the heck out of CeeBee's responce with facts.**

I disagee. In fact your out of context again. For example you were not disputing CeeBee, in fact your are disputing the "Defense Department" figures. Steve you don't work for the Defense Department, but I'm sure qualified applicants get a second interview. Word to the wise, don't bring up your personal Iraqi stats vs. the professionals at the Department of Defense or you may never get a job.



Bobby

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 10/18/04 5:21 pm:
Bobby,

I was refuting "CeeBee's response," not Defense Dept. statistics. If you'd check, the hyperlinks I posted are to the Defense Dept's statistics. The professionals at the Department of Defense are my source...not my 'personal Iraqi stats.' It doesn't get any more into context than that.

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 10/18/04 9:42 pm:
Steve-

I see now why some Bush supporters hated Kerry for using stats during the debates. Your as wrong with taking the issue out of context as labman was with my topic of voters between Gore and Bush. Tom tried to save him and couldn't.


**In my calculations, that makes it twice as to be white in Iraq**


You said...in your calulations. Her (CeeBee) info was based on the Defence Dept premise. Steve to understand the proportion you must first take the population percentage of blacks to whites in America and then compare that to the deaths of blacks and whites in the Iraqi quagmire. Not a total on just white and blacks that have died as casualties in Iraq...as your formula incorrectly calculated.


Just the way it is...has nothing to do with liberals having less or more shame than a conservative.



Bobby

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 10/19/04 12:26 pm:
Bobby,

When you make up your mind let me know. Your last complaints were 'in fact your are disputing the "Defense Department" figures' and using my 'personal Iraqi stats.' Now I need to 'understand the proportion'.

So, from the top, 'my calculations' are the DOD numbers, so I'm not disputing their figures...I merely calculated the percentages.

My 'personal Iraqi stats', taken from official DOD numbers, are white Americans account for 69.8% of American casualties in Iraq, and all other ethnicities combined account for 30.2% of casualties in Iraq, with 12.6% being Black or African American.

As tom pointed out, black casualties are proportionally consistent with the American population, although his number, 12.3% isn't entirely accurate. The 2000 census actually shows 12.9% reported as Black OR African American (Note the link to the source), 12.3% reported as black only.

According to the same census, whites account for 75.1% of the population, so I see nothing that indicates a disproportionate number of blacks are being 'slaughtered in Iraq'.

Hold on, I'm not finished yet. The latest report I found, for 2001, showed caucasians accounted for 64.3% of active duty personnel, and blacks accounted for 20.3%, so I still find no basis to affirm that blacks are killed in Iraq in disproportionate numbers.

That means based on figures I had available, there is no basis for the claim according to either the US population or military demographics, and in fact tells a different story.

Whites in the military, 64.3%
White casualties in Iraq, 69.8%
Whites in America, 75.1%

Blacks in the military, 20.3%
Black casualties in Iraq, 12.6%
Blacks in America, 12.9%

Care to try again?

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 10/19/04 11:47 pm:
No need to try after I gave you the formula you just used it on yourself.

According to your post Media Fund has an ad out that says "Bush is a rich man in the White House who is sending black men and women to be slaughtered in Iraq...."

Nothing about a racial issue of who has more casualties either black or white so why is it important to you or any other republican?

Let's look at this...

*Bush is a rich man...this is true!

*Who is in the White House...this is true!

*Sending black men and women to be slaughtered in Iraq....although Pres. Bush is an equal opportunity inept strategist and has sent all ethnicities to harms way, there is no doubt he has sent blacks...this is also true!

NEXT if white republicans want to give equal quota to deaths in Iraq then more white republicans need to sign up for the war campaign of their commander Pres. Bush. To complete the suicide mission you would need to increase the white casualties to meet 75.1%...a difference of 5.3% from their population totals of 69.8% in the US. Whereas blacks are only three-tenths of a percent below the difference between population of blacks in the US and their deaths in Iraq.

Btw I don't agree with Media Fund for their comment, "while Cheney and the Haliburton boys get rich on oil." If that could be proven this would be one of the worst atrocity in our White House history and so let's just hope it never is. I do think Cheney is a business man that has made finacial decisions to help benefit Haliburton. Which as far as I know is what CEO's all over America are doing and there is nothing illegal about that...at least not yet.:)



Bobby