Clarification/Follow-up by tomder55 on 10/06/04 11:00 am:
Purplewings ;my comment should read : Edwards was born 1953

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 10/06/04 11:01 am:
Bobby,

Speaking of different views of the same event...

---The Kerry view:

"We're two for two. Tonight, in Cleveland, John Edwards showed real strength and conviction -- he was in command of the facts and in control of the debate and a powerful advocate for John Kerry. The American people saw John Edwards as somebody who is ready, if neccessary, to be president of the United States.

Dick Cheney is totally out of touch with reality in Iraq and totally out of touch with the struggles of the middle class. This is nothing new to a man with a lifetime record of protecting the powerful and well-connected. He came across as smug, arrogant, mean and defensive -- but his trademark distortions and scare tactics didn't work. John Edwards refused to let him play the politics of fear and forced Dick Cheney to confront his administration's record of failure.

Americans are tired of growls and scowls from our leaders, and John Edwards and John Kerry offer America hope and optimism.

The Bush-Cheney campaign is already trying to spin the debate. I am here in Cleveland, right now, working to make sure that doesn't happen. Tonight my job is going to be a lot easier than my Republican counterparts for three reasons. First, John Edwards is our candidate for vice president, second Dick Cheney is theirs, and third I know that you are going to join me in this critical fight.

Here is what you can do:

1) Vote in online polls

The Bush-Cheney campaign has asked their supporters to vote in online polls. Don't let them distort the polls like they distort their record.

CNN
http://www.cnn.com

MSNBC
http://www.msnbc.msn.com

ABC News
http://www.abcnews.com

CBS
http://www.cbsnews.com

Fox News
http://www.foxnews.com

Also check you local newspaper and TV station's websites for online polls.

2) Call into talk radio

3) Write local newspapers

John Edwards clearly won on stage tonight -- let's make sure he wins against unrelenting Republican spin.

Sincerely,

Joe Lockhart
Senior Advisor"

---The Bush view:

Vice President Cheney proved one thing once and for all last night: substance always trumps style. Last night, one of the nation's most polished trial lawyers failed to effectively defend the Kerry record. Senator Edwards appeared flustered and off guard when asked to explain Senator Kerry's long record of opposing the weapons systems our military needs, and when confronted with his chronic absenteeism during his single term in the Senate. Predictably, Edwards' low point came when he was forced to resort to a desperate line of attack on Halliburton.

Undecided voters say the Vice President came across more persuasively:

Round Two went to the White House....

Vice President Cheney evened the debate tally during his tangle with John Edwards last night, with 20 Washington, D.C.- area swing voters scoring the bout 9-to-6 in the incumbent's favor. Five participants called it a draw.

Cheney connected with the voters when he spoke of education accountability and mocked Edward's newfound tough talk on defense.

The vice president also scored big when he blamed Edwards, a successful former trial lawyer, for driving up health-insurance costs.


The pundits scored it a clear win for Vice President Cheney:

The same political pundits who proclaimed Sen. John Kerry the winner of the first presidential debate last night gave the nod to Vice President Dick Cheney, saying he had bested Sen. John Edwards in their debate by clearly illustrating the large stature gap between the two vice-presidential candidates.

"I think Dick Cheney did awfully well in putting John Edwards in his place, saying, 'Well, I've been presiding over the Senate, and I didn't meet you until tonight,' " said NBC's Andrea Mitchell, recalling the vice president's most memorable line of the night.


An editorial in the Washington Post takes Edwards to task for his flailing attacks over Halliburton, and Kerry and Edwards' political approach to Iraq:

Last night Mr. Edwards persisted in some lines of criticism that we consider to be unsupported demagoguery, in particular hints of misconduct swirling around Mr. Cheney and Halliburton Co. ...

Mr. Cheney parried by attacking, with justification, inconsistencies in the Kerry-Edwards position on Iraq shaped more by politics than conviction. He also sharply accused Mr. Edwards of unfairly and mistakenly denigrating allied and Iraqi contributions to the war effort. [H]e was right to chide the Kerry-Edwards team for appearing insufficiently appreciative of the allies and Iraqis who have fought alongside U.S. troops.


David Winston says that the Vice President took the fight directly to John Kerry:

JOHN Edwards' impersonation of an attack dog in last night's debate was a little like watching a yapping terrier taking on an old Golden retriever. Dick Cheney was calm, collected, thoughtful and incapable of being ruffled. ...

He lived up to his reputation as a silver-tongued trial lawyer — but, in the end, he simply couldn't close the stature gap with personal attacks.

What the vice presidential debate showed was that clever quips and overdone charges are no substitute for strong leadership and a lifetime of experience in public service and public policy.

Cheney scored a number of direct hits on Kerry-Edwards. Most important, he put Edwards on the defensive by immediately putting Kerry's 20-year Senate record on national security issues back in play.


Dick Morris, a former Clinton aide, doesn't mince words about who won:

LAST night John Edwards went from seeming to be like JFK to emulating Dan Quayle in the space of 90 minutes. Confronted with Dick Cheney's obvious competence, incisive parries to his charges and devastating rebuttal of his phony statistics, Edwards looked like the proverbial deer in the headlights.

Normally, vice presidential debates are not significant. But this confrontation should serve President Bush well.

The reaction on TV and radio has been equally swift. Here's some of what we've been hearing.

MSNBC's Chris Matthews on Imus this morning: "I thought Cheney won the debate. I don't know how you could see it any other way."

And here's Imus' take: "I'm supporting Senator Edwards and Senator Kerry. That's who I intend to vote for. [Edwards] got killed."

NBC's Tim Russert noted that Edwards was "not entirely successful" in laying out "a coherent vision" for Iraq.

Newsweek's Howard Fineman on MSNBC: "On foreign policy and defense, [John Edwards] got outclassed by Dick Cheney. The reason is, agree with it or not, Dick Cheney clearly has a comprehensive theory and philosophy that he shares with the President about how to fight the war."

And Joe Scarborough, "I think Dick Cheney clearly had the upper hand tonight."

Yesterday, John Kerry rebutted another phony attack -- his own. During the debate, John Edwards insisted, inaccurately, that America had borne 90% of the casualties in Iraq, ignoring the sacrifices of the free Iraqis fighting the terrorists in their country. John Kerry had this to say about a central claim of his campaign -- that he can bring more allies to the table in Iraq:

Democratic presidential nominee Sen. John Kerry conceded yesterday that he probably will not be able to convince France and Germany to contribute troops to Iraq if he is elected president.

The Massachusetts senator has made broadening the coalition trying to stabilize Iraq a centerpiece of his campaign, but at a town hall meeting yesterday, he said he knows other countries won't trade their soldiers' lives for those of U.S. troops.

"Does that mean allies are going to trade their young for our young in body bags? I know they are not. I know that," he said.

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 10/06/04 1:59 pm:
PW-

The point was that Edwards father was learning math via television programing...not Edwards who was the kid at that time. Btw, Edwards is older than he looks (50's) as compared to Cheney (60's) that looks like he personally knew Thomas Jefferson.


Bobby