Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/27/04 2:25 pm:
Here's the difference Choux, Cheney expressing himself that way in a private conversation to a senator, on or off the Senate floor, is of no importance. Who knows what else is being said between these guys and gals in private and who cares? I was thinking myself last night that Bill Clinton is full of crap, so what?

Mrs. Kerry on the other hand, was very publicly and on camera criticizing the very traits she then demonstrated. She then has the unmitigated gall to call it an attack when a reporter asks what she meant. Then of course we have Hillary encouraging her, letting us know that Democratic, and American values means encouraging someone to deny what they say, act hypocritically on the very subject you're addressing, sticking your fingers in the face of those who question you and telling them to "shove it."

Cheney was honest, he said felt better about telling Leahy off...he didn't run from it and put the blame on someone else.

Kerry on the other hand denied what she said, put the blame on the reporter, put her fingers in his face and told him to "shove it," then plays the sympathy card. How dare someone question Mrs. Kerry?

That's Democratic values, step on whoever gets in your way.

Clarification/Follow-up by Chouxxx on 07/27/04 3:59 pm:
If you could see how desperate you sound over a trivial matter.... who in America doesn't want to tell the press to do more than shove it??????????

In fact, I bet almost all Americans would be happy to tell the media to do what Dick Cheney said to Sen. Leahy!!!!

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/27/04 4:42 pm:
I'm not desperate...I'm all for Mrs. Kerry making an ass of herself. What is troubling to me is the rules never apply the same. Cheney mouths off in private and he's a hypocritical jackass...Kerry mouths off in public, on film, while lying and denying and she's praised. I don't like those values...

Clarification/Follow-up by Chouxxx on 07/27/04 5:31 pm:
Dude, she didn't make an ass of herself! Get a grip! She is a real live intelligent woman who speaks five languages and runs a Philanthropic organization!

Keep in mind; there are no rules in politics; why do you think there are???? lol

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/27/04 5:40 pm:
Dudette, please don't tell me to get a grip. If you can't see the hypocrisy then that's your problem...but don't mock me.

Clarification/Follow-up by Chouxxx on 07/27/04 5:47 pm:
Mock Mock Mock Mock Mock

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/28/04 9:13 am:
Whatever Choux...excuse me for trying to stay on topic instead of trivializing both me and what is much more than a trivial matter. Virtually every news organization in the country...and many outside the country thought it was a newsworthy event. To you it's of no importance and that's fine, but it is an issue to me.

This speaks volumes of Mrs. Heinz-Kerry's, and according to the response, Democrat values. I'm more than a little insulted that Kerry's campaign is trying to usurp the 'values' platform, while prominent democrats are encouraging this behavior since it's coming from an outspoken, opinionated female democrat.

Who cares if she's opinionated? Who cares if she's intelligent, speaks 5 languages and gives some of her millions away? Does that make it acceptable to treat people anyway she sees fit? Does that make it acceptable to speak on the evils of incivility in politics then attack a reporter, from a conservative paper of course, that just wanted to know what she meant?

It's just one more episode in the hypocritical, liberal mindgame that heaps praise on liberals for doing the very things they condemn in conservatives. It's win at all cost, we know better than you what's good for you and you're a fool for not submitting to our superior intellect. It's a very warped attitude Choux...but that's of no importance.

Clarification/Follow-up by powderpuff on 07/28/04 9:19 am:

I never thought I'd say this, but I agree with you Itsdb.....

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 07/28/04 9:41 am:
Chou, respectfully, she DID make an as out of herself.

Tereeza screwed up. She said something that she realized after the fact was over the line. You never call a sitting president un-American at your national convention. It alienates your moderates. It was a major screwup on her part and she knew it. And she reacted badly when she was called on it, and lied to cover her butt. She got defensive and told the reporter to shove it. Then she went back to him to find out if he was with the Chicago Tribune (a conservative paper) as she suspected. Once she found out that he was, she decided not to apologize. If she had found out that he was with a more liberal paper, she would most likely have made some sort of apology, because she can't afford to alienate the Kerry-friendly media.

What she should have done was said "yes, I made that remark, but I really meant it this way...", which would have left her more in a defensive position, but would not have caused as big a stir. Instead, she opened a hornet's nest that even the liberal media is having trouble spinning. She came off as an angry beyotch, and I think that we've had enough of that from Hillary Clinton.

It was an amateurish mistake. I expected better political savvy from Tereeza, who is on her second husband who is a Senator.

As for her speaking 5 languages, the number of languages she speaks is not an indicator of either intelligence or education. I speak 3 languages, and I certainly do not consider myself more intelligent than anyone here. My grandmother speaks 5, and never went to high school. The fact that Tereeza speaks 5 languages tells me that she has a talent for languages... but that is ALL it tells me. Its WHAT she says in those languages that determine whether she is a woman of intelligence or not. And frankly, she is comeing up sorely lacking in that area.

If you want an example of an intelligent woman in politics, I suggest you look to Condoleeza Rice rather than Tereeza Heinz Kerry. I believe she is multi-lingual as well.

Elliot

Clarification/Follow-up by Chouxxx on 07/28/04 11:34 am:
To all you Dudes::: Ya gotta think outta the box.

SHE DIDN'T MAKE AN ASS OF HERSELF TO EDUCATED AMERICAN WOMEN!!!!!WE LOVE HER!

Did you forget, women vote.

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/28/04 12:06 pm:
And that Choux is precisely the point. 'EDUCATED AMERICAN WOMEN' apparently think kicking a man in the gonads makes them somehow...special.

Clarification/Follow-up by Chouxxx on 07/28/04 12:17 pm:
Women vote.

I may vote for Bush.
I may vote for Kerry.

How did you manage to insinuate your gonads into the conversation?????? Immature?

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/28/04 12:19 pm:
Choux,

I applaud women voting. I applaud women that aren't afraid to speak their mind. You are free and encouraged to do both. And it ain't my gonads I'm talking about, but the poor reporter who got a proverbial below the belt shot by an 'EDUCATED AMERICAN WOMAN,' another 'EDUCATED AMERICAN WOMEN' would have understood the symbolism in my statement.

Clarification/Follow-up by Chouxxx on 07/28/04 12:25 pm:
lol..."poor reporter"??? Better look up on your computer and see exactly what kind a person he is!

I have to end our conversation because I can't trust my self NOT to shoot you down and make you a laughingstock.

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 07/28/04 1:52 pm:
Choux, surely you jest...on both points.

What difference does "what kind of person he is" make? Are you of the belief that some people have less value than others? I see no such distinctions.

What on earth makes you think you could ever make me a laughingstock? Many here at Answerway have tried and failed, and you certainly don't intimidate me in the least.

Have a good day.

Clarification/Follow-up by Yiddishkeit on 07/29/04 12:47 am:
Elliot-

Couple of years ago I took a political personality test and the results classified me as a moderate republican. I would not had thought of myself as a republican in a thousand years, but sure enough as times are changing so do the parties. The old democrat party thinkers are actually the moderate republicans of today. The democrats of today are the socialists/liberals of 15 years ago or so. The pure modern day liberal hasn't changed much they still will be voting for Nader, libertarian or green party.

I will probably re-register as an independent. I'm holding out that eventually, perhaps 2008, that another Perrot (sp?) type will step up to the plate. However, that sob left us hanging and didn't follow through on the challenge or his commitment. That was too bad he cowarded down at the last moment. We actually had the opportunity for a viable third party candidate to become the next president.


Another thing that has changed is that war campaigns didn't seem an issue between the republican and old democratic parties, at least not enough to consider it a viable issue. Sure people had thoughts about the amount of force used, but we wanted to keep our freedoms alive. Yes and even though during Nam we we became pissed at our governement for not permiting us to go into certain zones, pissed at the way our veterns were greeted coming home, but still a great swell of patriotism, pride, and fervor among the parties, no matter if you were democrat or republican. For the most part they would find time to agree. The focus seemed more about economics then. All our presidents then were respected for their capability to use military strength, if need be.

Pres. Kennedy was just about ready to obliterate Cuba. He would probably be taking just as much heat by the modern day democrats as they give Pres. Bush today. Thinking back...I don't think the mindset of democrats changed with Pres. Johnson or even with Pres Carter, although Pres Carter proabbaly has been viewed as less than stern, he really was not. He just blundered those rescue operations and as nice as he was, the nation was ready to move on. I'm thinking the new democrat mindset, which appears very passive, happened when Reagan put an end to the cold war. To a certain degree this happened to many republicans also. America became too relaxed. Well for you and me, 9/11 means one thing and to others it still doesn't register.



Bobby