Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 05/28/04 4:16 pm:
Chou,

1 in 75 is 1.333% if my math is correct. That's shocking? In the last couple of years I've had all 4 tires slashed on my truck, been the victim of a hit and run, my daughter's been robbed, and just 2 days ago was again the victim of a hit and run. Why should I be surprised?

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by XCHOUX on 05/28/04 4:26 pm:
HI Steve,

I don't know how many men there are in America so I can't noodle the stats. Obviously, we need more information. By age and ethnic group for instance.

Anyway, I have never been the victim of a crime! How astounding is that!!

When I was married, my husband was mugged just off LaSalle Street(Chicago) at 6PM; they knocked him out of his shoes, ripped his suit and took his money. The police drove him around and he spotted them by Union Station; they were arrested and made restitution.

Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 05/29/04 8:43 am:
Chou,

Consider yourself fortunate :)

stevehaddock,

It's not that I missed things, I just responded to what Chou posted. To me the obvious is fewer criminals means a lower incarceration rate. Chou thinks something must be done about incarceration rates and so do I, but what? Unless we find a way to lower the crime rate I don't see a solution, because I darn sure don't want these criminals running loose.

How do you lower the crime rate? I don't know, but I think it begins with the values we teach our children. With this "me first and screw the rest" society we have now why should anyone be surprised at the prison population? I believe it's a direct result of the decay in moral values in this country. Others will blame it on anything but that, poverty, racial bias, profiling, or whatever...but that is exactly the attitude that contributes to the problem. Everyone wants to blame their ills on something or someone else instead of taking personal responsibility for their actions.

How do we respond? Do we instill values of love, compassion, accountability, help them understand how their actions affect others, etc? Of course not, we lower the standards, we sympathize with their "plight," we fight the "injustice" of those "overrepresented" groups in prison, we teach them to be bitter, that's it's "you against the world" and so innocent victims are not victims at all, they "deserved it."

When will people see the obvious? If males or blacks are "overrepresented" in prison, does anyone stop to think that perhaps males and blacks commit more crimes and deserve to be there?

Steve

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 06/01/04 9:37 am:
Excon,

>>>Your answer ain't exactly the epitome of meticulous analysis.<<<

No its not... but my goal was not to put forward an analysis. It was to show the flaw in Chou's analysis. I haven't got the time to go through crime statistics right now. My only point is that Chou is giving only half of the information neccessary to draw a proper conclusion. He gives us the number of people who are in jail, but he doesn't give us the number of actual criminals or the number of crimes committed. We have no way of determining, therefore, whether the number of people in jail is too high, too low or right on the money.

Clarification/Follow-up by ETWolverine on 06/01/04 9:45 am:
Chou,

>>>I have been thinking, and I would consider it reasonable if 10% of men were in prison. Don't have all the statistics re: population etc. <<<

10% is 1 in 10. The number you have put forward above is 1 in 75. 1 in 75 is 1.333%, which is lower than 10%. So if you are expecting a 10% incarceration rate for men, we had better get cracking with putting more men behind bars, don't you think?

Clarification/Follow-up by XCHOUX on 06/01/04 12:34 pm:
lol....good one! Elliot.