Question Details	Asked By	Asked On
Why are there so many clear lies here on this board ?	Pericles	02/05/07
And why are there so many people consistently lying here? Just one example out of too many : --- Topic : "Is secular humanism a religion?" by peddler7118 dated 02/03/07 Peddler claimed in her topic : "Secular humanists don’t want to be called religious. That’s because they don’t want to admit that teaching materialistic evolution is really a religious point of view" So I commented that Humanism is no religion. That a religion requires a deity as focal point. And that although Religious Humanism CAN have a focal point that MAY include a deity (Note : Can have, May include), Secular Humanism (the topic there) has no deity what-so-ever. It is focussed on the interest of the human being itself. To which peddler replied : "No it does not. The belief that there is no God and no creator is as religious as a person get get. There is no way to know there is no creator and no explanation for the existence of intelligence without one. It takes tremendous faith to deny God. Atheists have always claimed to be neutral but as your actions cleary show you are very religious and in fact zealous in your chosen faith" So I posted : Secular Humanism does not have anything to say about any deity, nor it's existence, nor it's qualities. Nowhere does Secular Humanism state that "there is no God". Get your act together and your argument supported by facts! Peddler replied : ""The first word in the Humanist Manifesto describes it as a religion and that is repeated 9 more times in the articles of faith." So I first posted the first two chapters of the Religious Humanist Manifesto, clearly proving that ""The first words in the Humanist Manifesto do NOTdescribe it as a religion. After I got a second similar LIE back from her I posted BOTH the entire Religious Humanist Manifesto and the Secular Humanist Declaration. Still a similar worded LIE and several other false accusations came back from her. Further requests from my side to support her claims were ignored and replaced by CHILDISH statements on the use of Vaseline and the problems of diaper rash. However : peddler did not redrew her LIES on the wording of the Humanist Manifesto. while the proof was in front of her, for all to see! --- The above shows perfectly what too many here on this board seem to assume : that they can post clear lies without being found out. To them I say : forget it : you will be asked to SHOW precise details on what you accuse others off, and to SUPPORT these accusations with evidence. So don't babble and sidestep here as so many do, but SUPPORT YOUR OWN STATEMENTS !!! And provide supporting evidence upon request (though you should already have provided that with your accusations!) But most important : if you think that you can sidestep the request for supporting evidence think again : I will make it one of my targets to show you what you are in that case : A LIAR !!!!!!! A scout may be always prepared. But if you lie here, you better also be prepared, because I will put you in the pillory as a liar !   My first pillory convicted : Peddler   Of course there is also one for the males
Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 02/05/07 5:52 pm: Now see there Pericles, you wonder why so many lies here and arguments not supported by facts, yet when I post verbatim the Humanist Manifesto I, which clearly and irrefutably defines the religion of humanism you say "Wrong." Are you really that blind or is it just "smarter" to ignore the meaning of a document which affirms the need to "reconstitute" traditional religion and establish in its place the "vital, fearless, and frank religion capable of furnishing adequate social goals and personal satisfactions," the religion of humanism. This document may not represent the worldview of every type of humanism, but it is entirely at odds with your contention that "Humanism is no religion." Clearly some adherents believe it is and have defined it as such. That is a fact you cannot dismiss with any credibility. Steve Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 02/05/07 5:54 pm:   peddler No advice on Vaseline and nappy rash this time?   Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 02/05/07 5:57 pm:   Arcura Why do you think I would be interested what any judge in your religious-mad country decides on atheism? Specially as the legal system in your MacDonalds banana republic is not especially wellknown for it's fairness and real independence ???   Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 02/05/07 5:57 pm:   TSapphire Get Real, babbling Betsy !   Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 02/05/07 6:09 pm:   TSapphire Get Real, babbling Betsy !   Clarification/Follow-up by Itsdb on 02/05/07 6:54 pm: Dom, I have no dog in Peddler's pony show, but it doesn't take anything more than a 'surface reading' to understand what was said here. Am I to conclude that this brand of humanism is so much gobbledy-gook open to interpretation as to not be able to comprehend "To establish such a religion is a major necessity of the present. It is a responsibility which rests upon this generation. We therefore affirm the following?" It don't get any plainer than that my friend. Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 02/06/07 1:41 am:   TS Who cares what you are babbling all over this board. But feel free to do in my topics : no problems : it's your privilege to post whatever you want. But than don't complain if I react critical at times.   Clarification/Follow-up by Pericles on 02/09/07 1:05 pm:   I have no need to argue any further with you here, Jacky! Just read what I posted earlier. &bsp;
Answered By		Answered On
Itsdb		02/05/07
"Humanism is no religion." -Pericles From Americanhumanist.org: Humanist Manifesto I The Manifesto is a product of many minds. It was designed to represent a developing point of view, not a new creed. The individuals whose signatures appear would, had they been writing individual statements, have stated the propositions in differing terms. The importance of the document is that more than thirty men have come to general agreement on matters of final concern and that these men are undoubtedly representative of a large number who are forging a new philosophy out of the materials of the modern world. — Raymond B. Bragg (1933) The time has come for widespread recognition of the radical changes in religious beliefs throughout the modern world. The time is past for mere revision of traditional attitudes. Science and economic change have disrupted the old beliefs. Religions the world over are under the necessity of coming to terms with new conditions created by a vastly increased knowledge and experience. In every field of human activity, the vital movement is now in the direction of a candid and explicit humanism. In order that religious humanism may be better understood we, the undersigned, desire to make certain affirmations which we believe the facts of our contemporary life demonstrate. There is great danger of a final, and we believe fatal, identification of the word religion with doctrines and methods which have lost their significance and which are powerless to solve the problem of human living in the Twentieth Century. Religions have always been means for realizing the highest values of life. Their end has been accomplished through the interpretation of the total environing situation (theology or world view), the sense of values resulting therefrom (goal or ideal), and the technique (cult), established for realizing the satisfactory life. A change in any of these factors results in alteration of the outward forms of religion. This fact explains the changefulness of religions through the centuries. But through all changes religion itself remains constant in its quest for abiding values, an inseparable feature of human life. Today man's larger understanding of the universe, his scientific achievements, and deeper appreciation of brotherhood, have created a situation which requires a new statement of the means and purposes of religion. Such a vital, fearless, and frank religion capable of furnishing adequate social goals and personal satisfactions may appear to many people as a complete break with the past. While this age does owe a vast debt to the traditional religions, it is none the less obvious that any religion that can hope to be a synthesizing and dynamic force for today must be shaped for the needs of this age. To establish such a religion is a major necessity of the present. It is a responsibility which rests upon this generation. We therefore affirm the following: FIRST: Religious humanists regard the universe as self-existing and not created. SECOND: Humanism believes that man is a part of nature and that he has emerged as a result of a continuous process. THIRD: Holding an organic view of life, humanists find that the traditional dualism of mind and body must be rejected. FOURTH: Humanism recognizes that man's religious culture and civilization, as clearly depicted by anthropology and history, are the product of a gradual development due to his interaction with his natural environment and with his social heritage. The individual born into a particular culture is largely molded by that culture. FIFTH: Humanism asserts that the nature of the universe depicted by modern science makes unacceptable any supernatural or cosmic guarantees of human values. Obviously humanism does not deny the possibility of realities as yet undiscovered, but it does insist that the way to determine the existence and value of any and all realities is by means of intelligent inquiry and by the assessment of their relations to human needs. Religion must formulate its hopes and plans in the light of the scientific spirit and method. SIXTH: We are convinced that the time has passed for theism, deism, modernism, and the several varieties of "new thought". SEVENTH: Religion consists of those actions, purposes, and experiences which are humanly significant. Nothing human is alien to the religious. It includes labor, art, science, philosophy, love, friendship, recreation — all that is in its degree expressive of intelligently satisfying human living. The distinction between the sacred and the secular can no longer be maintained. EIGHTH: Religious Humanism considers the complete realization of human personality to be the end of man's life and seeks its development and fulfillment in the here and now. This is the explanation of the humanist's social passion. NINTH: In the place of the old attitudes involved in worship and prayer the humanist finds his religious emotions expressed in a heightened sense of personal life and in a cooperative effort to promote social well-being. TENTH: It follows that there will be no uniquely religious emotions and attitudes of the kind hitherto associated with belief in the supernatural. ELEVENTH: Man will learn to face the crises of life in terms of his knowledge of their naturalness and probability. Reasonable and manly attitudes will be fostered by education and supported by custom. We assume that humanism will take the path of social and mental hygiene and discourage sentimental and unreal hopes and wishful thinking. TWELFTH: Believing that religion must work increasingly for joy in living, religious humanists aim to foster the creative in man and to encourage achievements that add to the satisfactions of life. THIRTEENTH: Religious humanism maintains that all associations and institutions exist for the fulfillment of human life. The intelligent evaluation, transformation, control, and direction of such associations and institutions with a view to the enhancement of human life is the purpose and program of humanism. Certainly religious institutions, their ritualistic forms, ecclesiastical methods, and communal activities must be reconstituted as rapidly as experience allows, in order to function effectively in the modern world. FOURTEENTH: The humanists are firmly convinced that existing acquisitive and profit-motivated society has shown itself to be inadequate and that a radical change in methods, controls, and motives must be instituted. A socialized and cooperative economic order must be established to the end that the equitable distribution of the means of life be possible. The goal of humanism is a free and universal society in which people voluntarily and intelligently cooperate for the common good. Humanists demand a shared life in a shared world. FIFTEENTH AND LAST: We assert that humanism will: (a) affirm life rather than deny it; (b) seek to elicit the possibilities of life, not flee from them; and (c) endeavor to establish the conditions of a satisfactory life for all, not merely for the few. By this positive morale and intention humanism will be guided, and from this perspective and alignment the techniques and efforts of humanism will flow. So stand the theses of religious humanism. Though we consider the religious forms and ideas of our fathers no longer adequate, the quest for the good life is still the central task for mankind. Man is at last becoming aware that he alone is responsible for the realization of the world of his dreams, that he has within himself the power for its achievement. He must set intelligence and will to the task. [EDITOR'S NOTE: There were 34 signers of this document, including Anton J. Carlson, John Dewey, John H. Dietrich, R. Lester Mondale, Charles Francis Potter, Curtis W. Reese, and Edwin H. Wilson.] Copyright © 1973 by the American Humanist Association Sounds like a religion to me.

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